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trieffiewiles
09-27-2008, 02:11 PM
. . . Villains

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/09/20/bovillains120.xml&page=1

Are you kidding me, Cthulhu's presence is irrelevent in comparision to that of Nyarlathotep, I could break any of the antagonists from Charles Dickens novels over my knee like a brittle tree branch 'and' probably get away with it, and Iago is -way- too high up on the list whilst Dr. Moriarty is -way- too far down, though it was nice that someone actually remembered him for a change.

A few of them I do agree with though, especially the judge from Blood Meridian, hell any number of antagonists from Cormac McCarthy novels could have been on the list, and if they didn't include the Joker that would have made no sense. A list like this really ought to be a 100.

Aetherwing
09-27-2008, 02:22 PM
Man....

Okay, where is The Lord of Strange Deaths? Fu Manchu, the Devil Doctor, should be there, and yep, Moriarty should certainly be higher.

I totally agree that Nyarlathotep trumps Cthulhu, hands-down (tentacles-down?).

Okay, and from the comic book villain realm, the Joker is bad news, but I'm thinking that Darkseid would be a better candidate, or even Braniac, or Sinestro (don't laugh, his name might sound lame, but for chilling villainy, he is no joke.

I guess the list makers just scratched up villains they thought the populace at large might be familiar with. It SHOULD have been a 100 list, and they missed so many deserving villains...Melmoth the Wanderer, anyone?

-Aether

G. S. Carnivals
09-27-2008, 03:45 PM
A longer list might have included Jean-Baptiste Grenouille from Patrick Süskind's masterpiece Perfume or Rudy from Jim Thompson's The Getaway. Nice guys not...

trieffiewiles
09-27-2008, 04:44 PM
Carnivals: I agree, and would you agree with me that they interpreted the character of Jean-Baptiste Grenouille in a bit too approachable, sympathetic way for the movie? I don't know, I think they should have used someone else.

Aetherwing: Yeah I definitely think some of the villains of comics whose destructiveness echoes on a genocidal or cosmic scale should be given far more serious thought, my favorite amongst this kind would have to be Mr. Sinister of the X-Men universe (no, I won't be making fun of Sinestro's name).

My reason for being into the Joker is because what he represents and symbolizes and that his intellect and creativity are what make him so lethal to civilized folks. I am thinking that this may be one of the reasons these artsy-Victorian literature types actually gave Joker the time of day, because he is really just a man, but his mind and actions make him seem like something more, like a great Sherlock Holmes villain.

Back to Cosmic comic villains, how much have you read of Marvel, I haven't followed comics themselves for quite some time, with the exception of certain graphic novel affairs, but Thanos is another old favorite and he really strikes me as being like Darkseid's twin in many ways.

Also, they should have put Fantomas on the list, for the amount of inspiration he gave to the surrealists and early twentieth century writers and filmmakers alone.

G. S. Carnivals
09-27-2008, 05:38 PM
Carnivals: I agree, and would you agree with me that they interpreted the character of Jean-Baptiste Grenouille in a bit too approachable, sympathetic way for the movie? I don't know, I think they should have used someone else.
Unfortunately, I have not seen the film adaptation of Perfume. A while back, I read a less than enthusiastic review of the film by Lucius Shepard.

bendk
09-28-2008, 03:06 PM
My favorite villain since childhood has been the Joker. I had the oversized reprint of Batman #1 and the Joker struck me as the epitome of evil. The history of the "evil clown" would make for an interesting study. Dr Moriarty was also a favorite. I see McCarthy's Judge from Blood Meridian made the cut, and rightly so. The name Hannibal Lector, like Dracula, Mr. Hyde and Darth Vader, is recognized as being evil. But Moby Dick? No way! The villain was Ahab, all the way!

Bleak&Icy
09-28-2008, 03:16 PM
But Moby Dick? No way! The villain was Ahab, all the way!

True, if it eats plankton, it does not qualify as a villain!

Later. Okay, I was wrong, sperm whales go for bigger game than plankton (from wiki):

Feeding

Sperm whales feed on several species, notably giant squid, krill, octopus, and diverse fish like demersal rays, but the main part of their diet consists of medium sized squid. Most of what is known about deep sea squid has been learned from specimens found in captured sperm whale stomachs, although more recent studies have analysed fecal matter instead. One study, carried out around the Galápagos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gal%C3%A1pagos), found that squid from the genera Histioteutbis (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Histioteutbis&action=edit&redlink=1) (62%), Ancistrocbeirus (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ancistrocbeirus&action=edit&redlink=1) (16%), and Octopoteutbis (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Octopoteutbis&action=edit&redlink=1) (7%) were the most commonly taken,[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-14) and that most squid were between 12-650 kg in weight. An older study, examining the contents of whales captured by the New Zealand whaling fleet in the Cook Strait region, found a 1.69:1 ratio of squid to fish by weight.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-15) Stealing of Sablefish and Toothfish from long lines has been documented and well known also (see below). Battles between sperm whales and colossal squid (which have been measured to weigh nearly 500 kg) have never been observed by humans, however white scars on the bodies of sperm whales are believed to be caused by squid. In one case three Sperm Whales were observed attacking or playing with a megamouth shark, a rare and large deep-sea species only discovered by man in the 1970s.[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-16)
It is hypothesised that the sharp beak of a consumed squid lodged in the whale's intestine leads to the production of ambergris, analogous to the production of pearls.[18] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-17) The irritation of the intestines caused by the beaks stimulates the secretion of this lubricant-like substance. Sperm whales are prodigious feeders and eat around 3% of their body weight per day. The total annual consumption of prey by sperm whales worldwide is estimated to be about 100 million tons — a figure greater than the total consumption of marine animals by humans each year.[19] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-18)
It is difficult to see why the sperm whale has such a large head in comparison to the lower jaw. One theory explaining this is that the Sperm Whale's ability to echolocate through its head aids in hunting. Within the head, it contains a structure called monkey lips, which it blows air through. This can create clicks that have a source level (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Source_level&action=edit&redlink=1) exceeding 230 dB re 1 micropascal referenced to a distance of 1 metre.[20] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-19) It has been hypothesised that these were directed at prey in order to stun them, however experimental studies attempting to duplicate this effect have been unable to replicate the supposed injuries, and have cast doubt on this idea.[21] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-20)
Long-line fishing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-line_fishing) operations in the Gulf of Alaska have complained that numerous sperm whales have taken advantage of their fishing operations to eat desirable species straight off the line, sparing the whales the need to hunt them themselves. However, the amount of fish taken is very little compared to what the sperm whale needs per day. New video footage has been captured of a large male sperm whale "bouncing" a long line, to gain the fish.[22] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_Whale#cite_note-21)

waffles
09-28-2008, 04:26 PM
I think Azathoth dogs Cthulhu anyday. I was glad they included the Dr. Lecter of Red Dragon and not of Silence of the Lambs.