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Julian Karswell
10-23-2009, 05:17 PM
Type the name 'David Icke' into Google and view his website and Wikipedia entry. I'd be interested to hear what TLO regulars have to say about the man and his beliefs.

JK

G. S. Carnivals
10-23-2009, 07:23 PM
Mr. Icke collaborated on a Quirk Classic of conspiracy theory in 1995:

The Reptile Enclosure ... And the Truth Shall Set You Free by J. G. Ballard and David Icke.

Ascrobius
10-23-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm very familiar with Icke, and have listened to him speak (on video and audio) and heard/seen him interviewed several times. He and guys like Alex Jones (fear-monger, conspiracy theorist) and William Cooper (author of Behold a Pale Horse) have managed to create one elaborate, paranoid, conspiracy theory after another and have managed to establish a rather rabid following of like-minded people and have turned their conspiracy peddling into a rather lucrative industry, writing books, charging a lot of money to give "lectures", and so on. Mind you, I am as cynical, anti-establishment, and questioning of authority of all kinds by nature (and the nature of "reality" itself), but listening to guys like Icke, who is a self-ascribed prophet with all the "reptilian" this and that, the Illuminati, Apocalyptic sooth-saying, Alien encounters, the Protocols of the Elder of Zion, contact with the spirit world, numerology and so forth, is nauseating to me, quite frankly. These guys claim to be "exposing" everything going on "behind the scenes" of what might be considered "consensus reality", (which is a questionable concept to begin with), and claim to have, through some quasi-divine means, decoded it all and urgently want to share it with those willing to believe it. Rest assured...I'm no sucker and I am as skeptical as they come, and I will be the first one to admit that there are reasons to not believe what is spoon fed to you by the great brainwashing machinery, and that there are lots of people in high places that have a vested interest in the masses not being privy to certain information, and that tactics are employed to distract you to ensure that your eye is not kept on the ball, so to speak. Again, I will be the first one to tell you that there are secrets being kept from people for reasons that often have to do with control and money, which are intimately connected. I am aware of the non-stop shell-game being played before our eyes every minute of every day. That said, I put Icke in the category of Tarot Card reader, fee-for-service psychic, and snake-oil salesman. He puts on a good show but in the end, in my opinion, he comes off as some kind of crackpot. That being said, I think he believes what he is saying, which is another issue altogether. Guys like Icke, Jones, and a slew of others often employ the tactic of turning the table on those that don't believe in what they say, often referring to non-believers or critics as shills for the conspirators or naive, unwitting accomplices to whatever the conspiracy du jour is. Fear-mongering and alarmist rhetoric are often part and parcel to their modus operandi.

If you listen to him for any length of time, I would suggest that most reasonable people would question his "intactness", if you will. If you want to judge for yourself go to google video and punch his name in. You'll see loads of video of him. You be the judge.

Nemonymous
10-24-2009, 03:41 AM
I haven't googled him yet, but I do remember him introducing sports programmes on BBC TV (in the seventies?) - things like darts and snooker. He seemed to be good at that.

paeng
10-24-2009, 04:59 AM
Visit

http://concen.org/

esp. the tracker section for various video and audio by and about Icke.

Julian Karswell
10-25-2009, 02:57 PM
Icke seems to be a very strange man. He cherry-picks eclectic proofs to support a series of unrelated arguments, and then seeks to weave them all into one all-embracing conspiracy theory. If he were an C18th painter or composer that might have been oddly fruitful, but for a modern day political activist, it's downright bizarre.

The notion that the world is controlled by an 'Illuminati' of invisible reptiles living inside certain celebrities is a half-baked conspiracy theory which echoes 'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' and the work of Nigel Kneale and John Carpenter. Besides, if there is a race of sentient reptilean creatures controlling the world, would they really have chosen George Bush as one of their number? The notion that he is even faintly illuminating or illuminated is laughable.

I'm quite prepared to believe that the world is governed by a selfish and nepotistic elite, but even that is a ramshackle, disorganised series of randomly organised power cartels, little different to the fuedal dictatorships that have always existed. There is no Smersh, Illuminati or Freemason conspiracy, far less one based upon paranoid science-fiction imaginings.

I wonder what turned Icke's mind? I doubt it was an epiphany. More likely he had a mental breakdown or bad acid trip. In fact I think it's probably the latter. There are a lot of weirdo artists who rename themselves and then cherry-pick pieces of religion by way of trying to "explain" things only they can see (Charles Manson and Aleister Crowley being cases in point).

starrysothoth
10-25-2009, 04:00 PM
This thread touches on a subject of great interest to me: conspiracies. For several years I have followed quite a few of the characters mentioned by others here in an effort to understand their beliefs, and to see if there's any kernel of truth in what they say about the world.

To me, it seems like Ike is a relative late-comer to the game of mass marketed conspiracy theories. The only really unique features of his ideas are the Reptiles at one extreme (the ultimate evil, the controllers at the top of his hypothetical pyramid), and a New Agey light religion at the other end that makes claims about the spirit realm nearly as ungrounded as his political conjectures. However, the rest of what Ike says is just a repeat of other conspiracies collected from sources that predate him by at least a solid decade or two.

I think the sheer outlandishness of bringing aliens into the mix minimizes the influence that conspiracists like Ike and William Cooper can ever have. Cooper, particularly, always seemed like a very unstable individual on top of his beliefs, in my opinion. There's little question that Alex Jones, the radio host and film maker Ascrobius mentioned, is the top conspiracist today with a large following.

Jones is a somewhat unusual animal. His determined effort to keep aliens and demons out of his views and his focus on timely political issues has made him the most successful and probably the most profitable conspiracy theorist of all time. I've listened to his radio show on a regular basis, since the boring nature of my day job leads me to occupy several hours a day with internet-streamed radio and music. I find it fairly entertaining if you're able to not buy into the grim portrait he paints, and he does occasionally have guests on who I find informative.

The thing I don't like about Alex Jones is that he generates dogma--intentionally or otherwise--and over the top fanaticism. I've been to a few real world political events where his believers show up and heckle political figures. Not that this is bad in of itself, but whether there is truth or not in the conspiracies they're concerned with, their conduct makes them look like clowns. Also, there is a definite profit motive to the Jones empire. I wouldn't have a problem with this if he tailored his show to sound more like Coast to Coast--as if he were merely a radio voice passing along information in an entertaining format. However, he relies too much on a generating a sense of fearful urgency that simply isn't realistic or fair.

The biggest problem with most conspiracy theories focused on power and control is that they concenrate too much on this group or that group as the ultimate powers behind the scenes. I personally think there is probably something sour about the Bilderberg Group and the Federal Reserve system in the United States. Though my assessment of the latter stems more from my economic views than from the conspiracies about it. I don't like the secrecy and attendees that show up to Bilderberg, but I doubt it has the type of iron control Jones and other conspiracy theorists claim.

On the other hand, I think it's a mistake to ignore conspiracy theories outright like most of mainstream history and media does today. After all, conspiracy theorists themselves can occasionally become dangerous conspirators. Look no further than what Hitler and co. did in pursuit of their beliefs about a conspiracy of Jewish-Bolshevism against the world. And on occasion, conspiracies do turn out to be true, though by the time its recognized they are usually paved over by history without the sense of astonishment that must have been there as they actually unfolded.

Sam
10-25-2009, 11:01 PM
I'm very familiar with Icke, and have listened to him speak (on video and audio) and heard/seen him interviewed several times. He and guys like Alex Jones (fear-monger, conspiracy theorist) and William Cooper (author of Behold a Pale Horse) have managed to create one elaborate, paranoid, conspiracy theory after another and have managed to establish a rather rabid following of like-minded people and have turned their conspiracy peddling into a rather lucrative industry, writing books, charging a lot of money to give "lectures", and so on. Mind you, I am as cynical, anti-establishment, and questioning of authority of all kinds by nature (and the nature of "reality" itself), but listening to guys like Icke, who is a self-ascribed prophet with all the "reptilian" this and that, the Illuminati, Apocalyptic sooth-saying, Alien encounters, the Protocols of the Elder of Zion, contact with the spirit world, numerology and so forth, is nauseating to me, quite frankly. These guys claim to be "exposing" everything going on "behind the scenes" of what might be considered "consensus reality", (which is a questionable concept to begin with), and claim to have, through some quasi-divine means, decoded it all and urgently want to share it with those willing to believe it. Rest assured...I'm no sucker and I am as skeptical as they come, and I will be the first one to admit that there are reasons to not believe what is spoon fed to you by the great brainwashing machinery, and that there are lots of people in high places that have a vested interest in the masses not being privy to certain information, and that tactics are employed to distract you to ensure that your eye is not kept on the ball, so to speak. Again, I will be the first one to tell you that there are secrets being kept from people for reasons that often have to do with control and money, which are intimately connected. I am aware of the non-stop shell-game being played before our eyes every minute of every day. That said, I put Icke in the category of Tarot Card reader, fee-for-service psychic, and snake-oil salesman. He puts on a good show but in the end, in my opinion, he comes off as some kind of crackpot. That being said, I think he believes what he is saying, which is another issue altogether. Guys like Icke, Jones, and a slew of others often employ the tactic of turning the table on those that don't believe in what they say, often referring to non-believers or critics as shills for the conspirators or naive, unwitting accomplices to whatever the conspiracy du jour is. Fear-mongering and alarmist rhetoric are often part and parcel to their modus operandi.

If you listen to him for any length of time, I would suggest that most reasonable people would question his "intactness", if you will. If you want to judge for yourself go to google video and punch his name in. You'll see loads of video of him. You be the judge.

A most excellent posting, Ascrobius.

The realm of conspiracy theories, or parapolitics, has fascinated me for years. I have read a fair amount on the subject, all the while keeping an enormous grain of salt within easy reach.

David Icke and even moreso Alex Jones do a great disservice to people with unorthodox views on current events and politics. I am in agreement with others in this thread that there is certainly more going on around us everyday than is apparent at the surface level, and that private meetings and deals take place amongst elites on the regular basis.

I also believe that there is no overarching organization or even grand plan directing all of this, just a number of self-serving power centers with a common interest in maintaining the status quo and protecting said status.

When someone like Dave Emory (http://spitfirelist.com/about-2/) comes along and does a couple decades worth of real research into what appears to be a verifiable and documentable alternative take on conventional history - in this case, the creation of an explicitly fascist international cartel system funded with Third Reich money that continues to exert influence today - it is so much the easier to write him and his work off as just another kooky tinfoil-hat conspiracy. My, how convenient.

I may not agree with everything Mr. Emory puts forth, but he is very careful to cite relevant documentation for most of his ideas, and is very up front about which topics are just his own theory and lack any sort of evidence. It seems to me that Icke and Jones - and so many others - do not hold themselves to such stringent standards. Plus, Icke believes evil space reptiles are enslaving us all. So, yeah...

starrysothoth
12-12-2009, 01:47 PM
Apropos of the conspiracies mentioned here, I just watched the first two episodes released from Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory on TrueTV. I found parts a little over dramatic, and the obvious acting on the part of his "research team" is a bit cheesy. One of them plays the skeptic, which is useful for raising questions about the conspiracy theories, but comes off as offbeat acting when incorporated into the show.

Otherwise, though, it isn't a bad introduction to the more popular conspiracies floating around today. The first two episodes were on HAARP (an Alaskan research facility allegedly responsible for energy transfer or weather modification) and 9/11. I understand that others will cover global warming, mind control, secret societies, and other topics. It won't delve into past conspiracies like the JFK assassination, though, unless it gets a second season. The website for the show is here:

CONSPIRACY THEORY WITH JESSE VENTURA on truTV (http://www.trutv.com/shows/conspiracy_theory/index.html)

If you poke around, you can probably find episodes uploaded to Youtube by now too.

I find Ventura himself entertaining, but this may just be personal bias speaking. I got a kick out of some of his antics while he was the Governor of my state, though I didn't consider him a perfect statesman.