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Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 05:57 AM
The internet - the world wide web - is not only an electronic web, but,
psychologically, spirituallly, terrestrially, globally, cosmically, giving
connections by some oblique conduit to everything physical as well as mental???

Not so much Lovecraftian as Truth-from-Fiction.

As a rider, 'Only Connect' is from HOWARD'S END by E.M. Forster who also wrote,
*exactly* 100 years ago, the brilliant SF story about the internet entitled THE
MACHINE STOPS

Joel
12-13-2009, 06:15 AM
The Internet is a latrine. This site and one or two others excepted, of course.

We can thank the Internet (together with the corporatisation of the media industries) for the swift and violent death of bookselling, literary publishing and literacy in general. For me as a lifelong, passionate enthusiast of literature and an aspiring writer, the Internet is one of the worst things that has ever happened. It has quite literally destroyed the things I live for.

Sorry, Des. If I could make the Internet go away through ritual magic, there would be many fewer goats in the UK.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 06:27 AM
The thrust of my reference to THE MACHINE STOPS is to encompass your view, Joel. My view, too, somewhat.

However, on the other side of the coin, disregarding, for a moment, my more mystical brainstorming thoughts on the matter, the Internet *arguably* seems more of a socialist commune, denying collectables and ownership???
Spreading literature in serendipitous waves and wheels...

Joel
12-13-2009, 06:53 AM
Des, for me the Internet represents 'libertarian' deregulated capitalism a competitive, profit-driven pseudo-anarchy in its purest form. It's 'crack' capitalism (to use the metaphor of crack cocaine), instantly addictive and violently destructive.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 06:57 AM
I should have added 'potentially' after 'arguably'. Of course, you're right in the perception of the Internet's current Reality.
I,too, by human nature, yearn to see my work in collectable print rather than electronic pixels.

Ascrobius
12-13-2009, 09:51 AM
If you get the chance, read Marshall McLuhan's The Medium is the Message. There is also a great CBC Documentary on his life. I believe it's called The Life and Times of Marshall McLuhan.

Anyway, McLuhan's ideas related to the nature and effects of literature, film, pop-culture and so on were so far ahead of their time that it's almost frightening. McLuhan addressed the concept of connectivity, the "global village" and its effect on culture and human consciousness. He "predicted" the internet and speculated about what it's effects might by long before its conception. Just look into McLuhan and you'll see for yourself. He was a unique, brilliant and extraordinarily insightful man. The Medium is the Message is a seminal work in media studies, to say the least.

Ascrobius
12-13-2009, 10:34 AM
I hate to cite Wikipedia, but in this instance, it was convenient and effective;

In semiotics and postmodern philosophy, the term hyperreality characterizes the inability of consciousness to distinguish reality from fantasy, especially in technologically advanced postmodern cultures. Hyperreality is a means to characterise the way consciousness defines what is actually "real" in a world where a multitude of media can radically shape and filter the original event or experience being depicted. Some famous theorists of hyperreality include Jean Baudrillard, Albert Borgmann, Daniel Boorstin, and Umberto Eco.
Most aspects of hyperreality can be thought of as "reality by proxy." For example, a viewer watching pornography begins to live in the non-existent world of the pornography, and even though pornography is not an accurate depiction of sex, for the viewer, the reality of "sex" becomes something non-existent. Some examples are simpler: the McDonald's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s) "M" arches create a world with the promise of endless amounts of identical food, when in "reality" the "M" represents nothing, and the food produced is neither identical nor infinite.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreality#cite_note-0)
Baudrillard in particular suggests that the world we live in has been replaced by a copy world, where we seek simulated stimuli and nothing more. Baudrillard borrows, from Jorge Luis Borges (who already borrowed from Lewis Carroll), the example of a society whose cartographers create a map so detailed that it covers the very things it was designed to represent. When the empire declines, the map fades into the landscape and there is neither the representation nor the real remaining just the hyperreal. Baudrillard's idea of hyperreality was heavily influenced by phenomenology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology_%28philosophy%29), semiotics, and Marshall McLuhan.


Wikipedia-

Odalisque
12-13-2009, 11:08 AM
Oh -- who cares about the smelly old Internet?

Odalisque
12-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Oh -- who cares about the smelly old Internet?

Before anyone picks me up on it, I don't mean literally smelly. Of course, if we drop too many bits of sandwich between the keys with which we input, our experience of the Internet might become literally smelly.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 11:18 AM
It has an interesting context within phenomenology, as Ascrobius' comments attest.

Smelly - that's one thing it doestn't seem to do. But my laptop needs cleaning.

Odalisque
12-13-2009, 11:29 AM
Smelly - that's one thing it doestn't seem to do. But my laptop needs cleaning.

I meant "smelly old" in the sense the disrespect found in children's insults. A child whose parents were quick to buy a television in the 1950s, might have mocked those whose parents were less profligate for still listening to "the smelly old wireless". This would not imply that radios had a strong or distinctive smell. Is that clear, now?

The dialogue should go something like this:

"Who cares about the smelly old Internet?"

"My Dad cares about it, so there!"

"Who cares about your smelly old Dad?"

"My Dad could beat up your weedy old dad any day!"

"Yah!"

I'm trying to raise us to that sort of intellectual level.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 11:43 AM
Well, your idiom seems nicely to convey the mixed feelings I have for the Internet. Like enjoying certain aspects of life even if their smells are off-putting. :)

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 11:55 AM
As to Ascrobius' posts, they turn out to be retro-causally relevant to the arbitrary title I gave this thread.

Hyperreality, irreality, surreality? .... a sort of retro-causal reality itself upon that story 'The Machine Stops' in 1909 that can't actually be about anything else but the Internet, if you read it.

McLuhanism is somethng I ought to re-read. Thanks for the tipoff in this context.

Mr. D.
12-13-2009, 02:44 PM
My observation, for whatever it is worth is that things like the internet change us, not the world. The world is the same as it always has been. We are the ones who adapt. When books became readily available after the invention of the printing press, we became readers. When railroads and highways became available we became travellers. Etc. With the internet we become hyperreal, surreal or whatever is necessary for us to become internet users. My thinking is that, with every invention and discovery starting with the control of fire, we have put on a different pair of glasses that changes us and keeps us from seeing things as they are. It's very hard to dispose of our filters because they are a kind of crutch and we are that absurd mixture of changable creatures of habit. Except for some more pollution the world is unchanged.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 03:19 PM
That seems to sum it up, Mr D. Thanks.

Reality's own stock of expectations or aspirations is the world as filtered by each of us.


But is there a consensus reality that is the real world none of us really see for what it is - because we need to be in each other's heads even to approach such a consensus?

The Internet is a potentially egalitarian tool towards such a consensus we've never had before?????

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 04:22 PM
Reality's own stock of expectations or aspirations is the world as filtered by each of us.
But is there a consensus reality that is the real world none of us really see for what it is - because we need to be in each other's heads even to approach such a consensus?
The Internet is a potentially egalitarian tool towards such a consensus we've never had before?????

Above I've re-drafted as :

Reality's own stock of expectations or aspirations is the world as filtered by each of us.

But is there a consensus reality of a common world that is the real world none of us really see for what it is - because we need to be in each other's heads even to approach such a consensus? The Internet is a potential tool towards such a consensus reality we've never had before about ten years ago? A conduit-easy, baffle-guided creature filtering truth back and forth through many orifices (some orifices channelled to different orifices, or looped around to the same orifice, others channelled into apparent nowhere).

des

PS: Some orifices disguised as nostrils with olfactory sensitivity.

G. S. Carnivals
12-13-2009, 04:41 PM
A Quirk Classic for Pet and des:

"The Internet Smell That Killed" by Cory Doctorow and Vincent Cornier.

Nemonymous
12-13-2009, 04:58 PM
Thanks, GSC :)

Just noticed Joel called the internet a 'latrine' and Odalisque called it 'smelly'.

I'm still grappling with a possible new consensus reality being enabled by the Internet.

Ascrobius
12-13-2009, 06:17 PM
This is worth watching.


YouTube- Being No One

Odalisque
12-13-2009, 06:24 PM
A Quirk Classic for Pet and des:

"The Internet Smell That Killed" by Cory Doctorow and Vincent Cornier.

It may be ignorant of me, but I've never heard of either Cory Doctorow or Vincent Cornier. :confused: