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Steve Dekorte
01-04-2011, 07:16 AM
Is there an inverse of Cotard's delusion? That is, when you feel everyone except yourself is an automaton. How about when you feel both yourself and everyone else is an automaton?

DoktorH
01-04-2011, 12:10 PM
Is there an inverse of Cotard's delusion? That is, when you feel everyone except yourself is an automaton. How about when you feel both yourself and everyone else is an automaton?

Some forms of paranoid schizophrenia include the delusion that others are automatons or under the control of some outside influence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Dec Dec believed that others were puppets of the Gangster Computer God, an evil machine on the moon that can see through anyone's eyes, hear through anyone's ears, manipulate thoughts, etc. He even sent some essays on his delusions to radio stations, where they were read and recorded. The Official Francis E. Dec Fanclub -- Official Disclaimer (http://www.bentoandstarchky.com/dec/) has copies of the recordings.

Steve Dekorte
01-04-2011, 04:35 PM
Dec believed that others were puppets of the Gangster Computer God, an evil machine on the moon that can see through anyone's eyes, hear through anyone's ears, manipulate thoughts, etc.

That's close - it would be like that except there would be no one who's eyes and ears are being seen through.

I've noticed that schizophrenics tend to speak in metaphors as if they were literal - and they themselves, treat them literally. In Dec's case, I can imagine he felt some form of inverse cotard's delusion but due to his schizophrenia, described it (and understood it himself) metaphorically as other people being controlled. The "moon" reference could be expressing the feeling of distance and coldness.

hypnogeist
01-04-2011, 05:11 PM
Fools! Do not falsely malign Francis E. Dec as a schizophrenic. For his holy rants are not the babblings of a madman, rather they are the inspired visions of a psychic genius prophet whose goal is nothing less than the preservation of the human race!!! You would do well to reread his scriptures with an open mind and heart, if you are to have any chance of evading the nefarious machinations of the Gangster Computer God. Do you truly wish to wind up 1 foot shorter or taller?

Survival Hint: Paint your trashcans blue and hang red wallpaper inside your homes.

DoktorH
01-05-2011, 12:18 AM
The "moon" reference could be expressing the feeling of distance and coldness.

I figured the moon was the location of the brain-bank cities because it's close enough to be in radio signal range for the gangster computer god frankenstein control program, but far enough away to be inconspicuous and difficult to tamper with.

I largely tend to agree with Hypnogeist that Dec was on to something, but his illness got in the way of articulating it and made his insights easy to dismiss.

The same theme does come up over and over again, though. Dec's Gangster Computer God. Ken Kesey's Combine. Salinger's phonies. The Illuminati. The Cliques of Normals Secretly Plotting Insidious Rituals Aimed at Controlling You (the Conspiracy, for short), The Bilderbergers, The International Monetary Fund, the Campus Crusade for Cthulhu. They crop up time and again, everywhere from Tea Party radio shows (Alex Jones can't go a day without bringing them up) to iconic literary works and cheesy TV shows.

It comes up too often in too many places to be a few disturbed people who are lucid enough to put a few sentences together in an entertaining fashion. There's something out there. something bad. and it wants our brains. It's something easy to overlook, something just outside the range of our senses most of the time, like those "mosquito" high-pitched noise emitters that hurt the ears of young people but are too high-pitched to be audible to older people.

I think reclusive people are more likely to detect it. They may be isolating themselves due to illness, philosophical pessimism, or for other reasons, but their isolated lifestyle means that this bad thing stands out more to them than it does to people who are exposed to its effects so regularly they assume it's normal. Whatever it is, whatever name you give it, Cthulhu, Combine, Illuminati, Satan, Masons, Great Black Swine, Gangster Computer God, it wants our minds, our money, and our time. it wants us to put its well-being ahead of our own.

hypnogeist
01-05-2011, 05:18 AM
@ DoktorH

It is good to learn that despite your misdiagnosis (or so it appears to me at least - few things seem entirely incontrovertible in this strange world, so I must allow for the possibility, however unlikely, that I am wrong about FEDec's sanity) of FEDec that someone else recognizes the existence of the ever present, ever waiting and watching Great Conspirator, the Unseen Puppeteer hiding just beyond the opaque curtain we call reality, constantly grinning his (or her?) insane grin of diabolical glee at the psychic discord It is interminably brewing up in Its Black Cauldron of Evil Mischief [once in a while a bit of Benign Essence also escapes the Cauldron of Evil Mischief, but this event is so rare as to be easily regarded as noncupatory, unfortunately]. I respect your ability to look past the ubiquitous leaden masks of stereotype and "herd mentality" so much of society blithely wears to correlate the evidence in order to become aware of this fell Entity. Nonetheless, I seem to perceive a few questionable concepts in what you have said.

Viz., so far as I know, Cthulhu and Satan have never had any craving for money. Cthulhu, according to the Prophet H.P.L., has some use for human minds and time, while Satan, if the rumors of his existence are to be believed (must admit I have my doubts), is always slavering for human souls, yet neither ever had use for or an inability to acquire, respectively, money.

Futhermore, I find dubious the idea that either Cthulhu or Satan harbor any particular wish that we humans put their well-being ahead of our own. Great Cthulhu, once woken from his long sleep, will be so powerful that he will enslave all mankind, so H.P.L. has asserted. Likewise, surely Old Scratch could give a gray rat's arse about people caring for him, as powerful as he is. Plus, I've heard he's already very much acclimated to rejection.

If nothing else, I do agree that Illuminati and the Masons, without doubt, all covet our minds, money, *and* time, as well as nursing a desire for us to put their well-being before our own. As for the Combine, the Bilderbergers, et al, I cannot comment because I have no knowledge of them. The designs of the Gangster Computer God also continue to lie, as yet, outside my understanding, mainly due to the fact that much of the great FEDec's scripture remains resistent to my best efforts at a precise literal translation - sadly, I was not born with the gift of easily deciphering his holy legacy with overmuch accuracy.

So then, how do you explain your logic? Please be so good as to elaborate. I am always looking to improve my knowledge and correct errors in my thinking.

G. S. Carnivals
01-05-2011, 08:08 AM
This older thread should be of interest:

Cotard's Syndrome - THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK (http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?t=387)

DoktorH
01-05-2011, 11:19 AM
So then, how do you explain your logic? Please be so good as to elaborate. I am always looking to improve my knowledge and correct errors in my thinking.

They are all different symptoms of the same ailment. Cthulhu wants our minds, the Masons want our time and money, the Gangster Computer god wants our actual brains, satan wants our souls. They are all puppets of that Great Puppeteer you reference, which is clearly out to take from us anything that can be taken, and has a number of puppets with which to separate us from our time, money, minds, souls, or other resources.

the only unifying thing I can think of, the logic behind having so many puppets to take so many different things from its victims, is that it wants to build simulacra of those it has victimized as a means of making more puppets.

This theory presumes that humans have some independence from the Great Puppeteer to begin with, and I could be mistaken in that. It could equally be that we are puppets from the start and that the Puppeteer is out to scrap us for parts that may be used to construct different puppets.

It does raise a question, though: if we're all puppets from the start, why are some puppets constructed with the power to perceive the Puppeteer? Given the sadistic or apathetic disposition attributed to its more prominent manipulative puppets that seek to divest us (the lesser puppets) of our resources, it is possible that the Puppeteer itself gets some amusement out of having puppets that resist the strings, so even though a lifetime of heroic narratives makes me resistant to it, I must admit that the puppets-from-start-to-finish theory is more likely.

On that note, I must depart from my current storage box to go to a different one and perform actions that have no meaning to me in exchange for bits of paper which I may then use to make others perform meaningless actions for my benefit/amusement.

hypnogeist
01-05-2011, 11:18 PM
@ DoktorH
Right... o_0 In my two earlier posts I was attempting to be arch, was joking when I spoke of FEDec and H.P.L. as prophets, and I don't believe in any Great Conspiratorial Puppeteer.

However, in considering your words the theory does not seem necessarily impossible. Maybe there is such an Entity. Certainly, as you pointed out, enough people throughout history have come up with ideas of grand conspiracies to make one wonder.

My own feeling, in all seriousness, is that probably there is no Great Puppeteer, that the persistent trend for certain individuals to believe in various conspiracy theories of cyclopean proportions is due not to an actual Great Puppeteer Entity but to something hard-wired in the human mind that sometimes runs amok under certain conditions and creates the illusion of a far-reaching conspiracy within the mind of the victim.

Most likely, I theorize, the mental mechanism in question is closley related to the survival instinct. This might explain why individuals who perceive the Great Puppeteer are often recluses, outsiders, or pariahs. In not being socially integrated into society they begin, on some level, to distrust people as "others", and a pervasive, ever-present suspicion of all that is not themselves takes root in their minds.

This pervasive suspicion, which implies an ever-present threat, weighs heavily on the victim, resulting in a need to act, to identify a single threat that can be distinctly conceptualized and dealt with, rather than attempting to struggle with the unwieldly idea that everyone is against them (although, of course, there are those who latch onto the latter idea as well, another subject...). And so the victim constructs (or perhaps accepts and already existing) a conspiracy theory of vast extent and focuses on this exclusively. In a nutshell, the victim sublimates his or her rejection from society into a conspiracy theory.

Then again, maybe some kind of Great Puppeteer really does exist and is pulling all the strings from behind the scenes, like Eddie on the cover of the Iron Maiden album Number of the Beast. The idea is not without dramatic appeal. If so, do you think this discussion might be drawing the Entity's attention? <__< , >__>

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. No doubt your idea is an interesting and spooky one.

DoktorH
01-05-2011, 11:45 PM
Then again, maybe some kind of Great Puppeteer really does exist and is pulling all the strings from behind the scenes, like Eddie on the cover of the Iron Maiden album Number of the Beast. The idea is not without dramatic appeal. If so, do you think this discussion might be drawing the Entity's attention? <__< , >__>

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. No doubt your idea is an interesting and spooky one.

In the social circles I typically move about in, a half-joking-half-serious admiration of Francis E Dec and a belief in some kind of cyclopean conspiracy do crop up on a regular basis. It is a group that regards paranoia as a form of entertainment, and it does attract actual kooks/conspiracy-theorists from time to time. I'm somewhere on the verge of kook myself.

as for whether or not the Great Puppeteer would notice a discussion like this, if it is an actual malignant force/being/organization rather than just a bothersome bogeyman in the minds of recluses and outcasts, I think such a conversation would be part of the show. It would only serve to reinforce the crazy-recluse behavior of the participating puppets, because crazy recluses (in my experience with them and, at times, as one), possibly because of their lack of social integration, like having an audience.