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Old 09-24-2010   #11
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

Quote Originally Posted by Tsalal XIII View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Steve Dekorte View Post
he experienced himself as simultaneously an observer of his body and the subject of observation.
I don't quite understand how is that different to what we all feel while experiencing our body? After all, we sense with it and sense it at the same time.
Do you really experience yourself as an external observer of your body?

"The failed magician waves his wand, and in an instant the laughter is gone." - Martin Gore
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Old 09-24-2010   #12
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

"The evidence supports another view: Our brains create an illusion of unity and control where there really isn't any."

Divided Minds, Specious Souls SEEDMAGAZINE.COM

"The failed magician waves his wand, and in an instant the laughter is gone." - Martin Gore
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Old 09-24-2010   #13
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

Quote Originally Posted by Steve Dekorte View Post
Do you really experience yourself as an external observer of your body?
No, not external (that adjective wasn't present in the original quote), but I certainly feel that I'm observing my hand, which is pretty close to "experiencing myself as simultaneously an observer of my body and the subject of observation".
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Old 09-24-2010   #14
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

Quote Originally Posted by Tsalal XIII View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Steve Dekorte View Post
Do you really experience yourself as an external observer of your body?
No, not external (that adjective wasn't present in the original quote), but I certainly feel that I'm observing my hand, which is pretty close to "experiencing myself as simultaneously an observer of my body and the subject of observation".
I guess we are interpreting it differently. The original quote was "... felt his head was detached from the rest of his body and experienced himself as simultaneously an observer of his body and the subject of observation."

I took this to mean that he could feel his body but felt detached from it (except for his head) making him feel like an external observer of it. That is, he had lost his sense (the illusion) of ownership or oneness with the rest of his body.

"The failed magician waves his wand, and in an instant the laughter is gone." - Martin Gore
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Old 09-24-2010   #15
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

Zen story (of some relevance to this thread):

So the monk said, "Master, I have no piece of mind pacify my mind" And so Bodhidharm said, "Bring your mind out here before me and I will pacify it" And Hui-k'o said, "But when I look for my mind, I can't find it." And Bodhidharma said, "There, it's pacified" Immediately, Hui-k'o had an insight into the meaning of Zen, because when he tried to realize his mind as something actual and concrete and physical, he couldn't find it. It just wasn't there."

"The failed magician waves his wand, and in an instant the laughter is gone." - Martin Gore

Last edited by Steve Dekorte; 09-24-2010 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 09-11-2017   #16
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

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Old 09-11-2017   #17
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Re: Thomas Metzinger

This PDF might be of interest to you: Collapse Vol. IV: Concept Horror : Robin Mackay : Free Download Streaming : Internet Archive

It contains essays about Horror and Cosmic Horror in particular, including one titled: The Shadow of a Puppet Dance: Metzinger, Ligotti and the Illusion of Selfhood (page 185), and another one co-written by Ligotti himself (page 208)
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