Which Ligotti Stories Should be Filmed?

[waffles]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D.

Dear Nicole, To a degree I would have to disagree with you. I think that Mr. Ligotti's stories could serve as a basis for the best television series ever made. I can envision something like the old "Friday the 13th" series. I'm sure most members are aware of it but for those who aren't, a young man inherits a store full of magical items and he has to recover the ones that have been sold before disaster strikes the buyers, for all of the items are evil. If someone could come up with a framework like this where the protagonist(s) get involved in one Ligotti story after another I think great television could happen. The problem would be keeping the continuing cast members alive and (reasonably) sane throughout the series. If the individual episodes could be kept true to Ligotti's writing then this would be one television series I would definitely watch.

I love Friday the 13th - very cheesy but effective.
I also remember episodes being directed by David Cronenberg and Atom Egoyan.

[Nicole Cushing]

Mr. D. Wrote:

Dear Nicole,
To a degree I would have to disagree with you. I think that Mr. Ligotti's stories could serve as a basis for the best television series ever made. I can envision something like the old "Friday the 13th" series.



I grew up in the '80s and remember the various horror anthology TV series at the time. (Friday the 13th, Freddy's Nightmares, and Tales from the Darkside were the kind of horror I grew up on. I wasn't allowed to go to the movies to watch the latest Stephen King film...but the flow of entertainment into my home via TV was more difficult for my parents to restrict.)

So, I'm not entirely unsympathetic to this kind of entertainment. For me, it has some nostalgia value. That said, I pretty much have stopped watching the products of the present-day film and TV industry. (In the last five years, I've probably watched fewer than five horror films made after 1985)....and cringe at the idea of film or TV nincompoops adapting Tom's stories.

Why?

Because we already have the stories, which capture exactly what Tom wanted to say in the way he wanted to say it. Prose is an individual endeavor...all one needs is pen and paper (or laptop and printer). The technical requirements of working in film or TV require many more hands-on-deck and significant financing...which means that (no matter how well-meaning the film/TV people were) Tom's unique vision would suddenly be changed into a group vision.

It's just the nature of the beast.

Now, how many people in the group would actually "get" Tom's fiction? What role would financiers have in making changes to render his work more accessible to a greater audience (inevitably watering it down)? How long would it be before we got a stupid, "evil puppet"-chasing-teenagers movie or TV show made claiming to be a Ligotti adaptation?

Sorry, I wouldn't even trust independent filmmakers with Tom's vision. If they wanna make films, let 'em write their own goddamned stories. As Alan Moore recently said, "Inevitably, you have to have money people involved with films...That's a general problem with film, it's very costly...There's no reason for adaptations -- other than to make somebody (probably not their creator) a great deal of money."

Now...Tom has co-authored a screenplay. If someone wanted to make a non-X Files version of Crampton that used Tom and his co-author's screenplay, I think that would be fine.

[DoktorH]

I recall in another thread somewhere it was mentioned that "My work is not yet done" started as a movie script, and I think it would be wonderful to get it up on the screen. It's a bit like a movie that already exists, "bruiser," but i think it would be much, much better.

I'd like to see "the Shadow, the darkness" adapted as well. they could use actual copies of "The Conspiracy Against the human race" in it as a prop, which would win more readers/fans.

[Michael]

I have this fantasy that "Teatro Grottesco" will be filmed by David Lynch. For some reason I've always felt that this story is incredibly "filmable".

[NealJansons]

"My Work Is Not Yet Done" would probably be the most accessible, and it was originally conceived as a screenplay (I have the word of the Master, in both interviews and correspondence, on this). It's the most easily followed narrative while at the same time not being essentially a "talking film"...so many of his stories focus on someone just talking or thinking about something, and that never translates well to the big screen. I think most of the other stories would need too much "adaptation" to turn them into movies. Teatro Grottesco, for example, would have to be turned into something far more accessible to work, and to whatever degree that is necessary, that is the degree to which the story will be watered down, and its grim power lost.

[Mr. D.]

The sad fact is that Ligotti is probably much to intelligent of a writer to intrest Hollywood. Some alternate method requiring little money should be considered if his work is to transform into another medium. I've had a lot of dealings with movie executives and they are either too stupid or too ignorant as a group to even understand a Ligotti work. Television has more venues so I thought of that medium first, but the people who run television are pretty lame as well. I think that what is needed is a small group of dedicated fans who will forget about the money but strive for excellence. Ligotti is all about suggestion, so talent and technique would be more effective than obvious CGI effects and loud Dolby stereo. The atmosphere is all.

[Dead as Dreams]

Michael,

Completely agree with you that “Teatro Grottesco” is “incredibly ‘filmable.’” And David Lynch is a great choice, working from either film stock or digital.

I haven’t given much thought to Ligotti adaptations before now, but some fantasy pairings readily come to mind. Judging by the Werckmeister Harmonies, I think that Béla Tarr could pull off a splendid version of “The Town Manager” or “The Shadow, the Darkness.” E. Elias Merhige using the b&w re-photography of Begotten would be my choice for “The Night School.” Then I’d go Shinya Tsukamoto for “The Chymist.” Lastly Karim Hussain, but I have no idea what story he’d take on. Subconscious Cruelty makes me think that there are many possibilities.

If I want to get as close as possible to Ligotti’s vision, why would I ever watch a filmic adaptation of his work? I’ll go right to the books instead, thank you very much. This is the closest we can come to mainlining Tom’s nightmares, and for this we can all be immensely thankful; we were both spared, and not spared. On the other hand, if I’m interested in how a visionary auteur or a director with an intriguing aesthetic engages with and interprets Ligotti’s work and the philosophical/thematic terrain it navigates, then I’d watch an adaptation. This seems to be pretty clearly reflected in my fantasy picks above, as I wouldn't want to see any old dime-a-dozen, mediocre director on Hollywood’s payroll clumsily tackle Tom’s work.

Probably the wrong thread for this, but did anyone see The Theatre Bizarre? I bring it up here because it’s a recent film that, to my mind, was successful in creating a genuinely weird as opposed to just horrific atmosphere--a must for adapting Ligotti effectively. Even if this result is by no means consistently achieved throughout the entire omnibus, there’s still a lot in the film to recommend it to aficionados of the weird. In one of the featurettes, Richard Stanley adapts Clark Ashton Smith’s “Mother of Toads,” while another has the inimitable Udo Kier playing an automation coming to life, presiding over the transformation of a flesh-and-blood girl into a mannequin.

If anyone's interest has been piqued, the trailers for Subconscious Cruelty and The Theatre Bizarre are easily found on YouTube. I was hesitant to link to them because they're absolutely filthy (as they should be!) and I was unsure if Our Town Manager would tolerate them...

[NealJansons]

Quote Originally Posted by Dead as Dreams

Michael, Completely agree with you that “Teatro Grottesco” is “incredibly ‘filmable.’” And David Lynch is a great choice, working from either film stock or digital. I haven’t given much thought to Ligotti adaptations before now, but some fantasy pairings readily come to mind. Judging by the Werckmeister Harmonies, I think that Béla Tarr could pull off a splendid version of “The Town Manager” or “The Shadow, the Darkness.” E. Elias Merhige using the b&w re-photography of Begotten would be my choice for “The Night School.” Then I’d go Shinya Tsukamoto for “The Chymist.” Lastly Karim Hussain, but I have no idea what story he’d take on. Subconscious Cruelty makes me think that there are many possibilities. If I want to get as close as possible to Ligotti’s vision, why would I ever watch a filmic adaptation of his work? I’ll go right to the books instead, thank you very much. This is the closest we can come to mainlining Tom’s nightmares, and for this we can all be immensely thankful; we were both spared, and not spared. On the other hand, if I’m interested in how a visionary auteur or a director with an intriguing aesthetic engages with and interprets Ligotti’s work and the philosophical/thematic terrain it navigates, then I’d watch an adaptation. This seems to be pretty clearly reflected in my fantasy picks above, as I wouldn't want to see any old dime-a-dozen, mediocre director on Hollywood’s payroll clumsily tackle Tom’s work. Probably the wrong thread for this, but did anyone see The Theatre Bizarre? I bring it up here because it’s a recent film that, to my mind, was successful in creating a genuinely weird as opposed to just horrific atmosphere--a must for adapting Ligotti effectively. Even if this result is by no means consistently achieved throughout the entire omnibus, there’s still a lot in the film to recommend it to aficionados of the weird. In one of the featurettes, Richard Stanley adapts Clark Ashton Smith’s “Mother of Toads,” while another has the inimitable Udo Kier playing an automation coming to life, presiding over the transformation of a flesh-and-blood girl into a mannequin. If anyone's interest has been piqued, the trailers for Subconscious Cruelty and The Theatre Bizarre are easily found on YouTube. I was hesitant to link to them because they're absolutely filthy (as they should be!) and I was unsure if Our Town Manager would tolerate them...

I actually just watched "Theatre Bizarre" last week. My wife and I both loved it...some stories were better than others, but overall it was very good and definitely influenced by Ligotti...you can tell.