Will cruelty and horror become normalized?

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by Karnos

I used to frequent on of the earliest gore sites on the internet. In fact, I was a moderator there at a time, briefly. I was drawn there by mere morbid curiosity, but after a few months my satisfaction was quenched and I stayed only for the community, which used to be fantastic and dynamic.

Really curious about this. What kind of gore sites? Was it horror films, real injuries/deaths, artwork or fetishism? All of the above?

What made it so good?

Have to say I've never liked the gawking at injury and death, a lot of men's magazines used to feature that stuff oddly enough and it doesn't seem right.

[ToALonelyPeace]

Quote Originally Posted by ukiyo-e cat

I disagree partially, ToALonelyPeace. Your sociohistorical analysis is correct in that cruelty has largely been part and parcel of mankind's travails, but I would also add that in some time periods it has been more frowned upon, such as the second half of Ashoka's reign. What I am expounding is nihilistic thought has conditioned many to view such cruelty with indifference, since they believe the Universe and by extension mankind's behavior to be amoral. There are no moral principles in a fully icy bleak universe by which to judge such actions as good or bad, except one's personal predilections. Such thoughts may seem niche to horror lit aficionados or some pessimistic/existential philosophers, but it is actually becoming more common among university students and more. In the past one could reference eschatological punishment as a way to persuade individuals not to yield to such sadistic impulses. Now man cannot justify such sentiments within materialist or nihilistic worldview, which has become widespread, and can only rely on pragmatic reasons relating to social cohesion, which are not as strong.

Your view is similar to that of Dostoevsky in The Brothers Karamazov where the idea is that 'If God is dead, all is permitted' (he actually never write the sentence though). The thing is I'm not sure if what disturbs people is the cruelty and sadism itself so much as they are enacted without a good cause-the good cause in the name of a God, progress, life, nation, or family.

[Karnos]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Quote Originally Posted by Karnos I used to frequent on of the earliest gore sites on the internet. In fact, I was a moderator there at a time, briefly. I was drawn there by mere morbid curiosity, but after a few months my satisfaction was quenched and I stayed only for the community, which used to be fantastic and dynamic. Really curious about this. What kind of gore sites? Was it horror films, real injuries/deaths, artwork or fetishism? All of the above? What made it so good? .

It was called Ogrish.com

It was mostly death and injuries. Everything from casual death caught on video and gory accidents, to hands down murder by terrorists and psychopaths, plus all the disgusting things in between (people pissing on each other, lonely goth girls eating their own excrement, animal cruelty, anatomical deformities, gross things like that)

It was owned, I think, by a Dane and the actual website was hosted by servers someplace else in Europe. I joined in late 2000. Its popularity sky rocketed shortly after 9/11 and then it reached an all time high between 2003 and 2006 with the endless amount of beheading videos, courtesy of all flavors of jihadism following the American invasion to Afghanistan. After that, quite a few of these kind of places cropped out through the internet, and some of the established membership migrated to these various places, most of which are probably defunct by now.

For a while it became the place to go if you wanted to be grossed it. It also had lots of ambition as well. There was a very quick run of a magazine, Ogrish magazine. It was a limited affair, and it lasted for perhaps only two issues, if not only one. They also wanted to do a Spanish language only version of the website, but I don't think that ever got off the drawing board. There was even a film maker who tried to do a documentary about the website, and use it as a springboard to explore the human attraction to morbidity. He went around interviewing a few forum members, and I think you can still find some trailer footage if you dig around.

The website was bought over by a media company around 2006 o 2007. All the video and photo content in the archives, some of it going back to as early as 2000 or even 1999. Everything was sold, except the forums, which eventually became ogrish forums. The newly acquired content was used to launch another gore media website, LiveLeak. While talk of the purchase was going on, a huge riff happened between members, moderators and the administrators, and the whole place split.

After that, what remained of the website was lorded by a series of rather tough moderating measures that were introduced. In no time the place became a private zoo that no longer accepted any new members. As I wrote previously, I was a moderator there, probably around 2005 or 2006, I don't remember exactly. I couldn't keep up with it, however, because I had an opportunity to work for a while in Helsinki, and I couldn't find the time (and interest, if I'm allowed to be honest here) to continue.

I did a pretty scummy thing, though, and I didn't even tell the administradors that I was going to quit. I just quit without notice. I did so because I also got tired of modding, and the people in there got on my nerves, plus I hadn't even bothered looking at gore since 2004, or earlier, so it wasn't even an honest job done for free. That was it. Then a year or two latter after I left, I sold, literally sold for cash, my id (which is the same I own here) to a weird guy I met in Helsinki, who was desperate to get in. The few things I know about what's going on there (such as it becoming a cesspit of racism) I know so because we keep in touch from time to time. (we became good friends)

I really don't have any deep meaningful thoughts about why I was attracted to such media. I just was. Back then I was going through a rather pessimistic period in my life, and my interest in death was seen more from a materialist perspective rather than the more trascendental view I have today. I suppose I wanted to see what terrible ways there are for life to be extinguished on this Earth, or maybe I was just trying to prove myself tough enough to stare at death in the face. Who knows. It was probably a stupid reason, like many other stupid beliefs and opinions that seemed important to me back then.

I guess I tend to be more pessimistic like Michael Haneke because I feel it is generally not morbid curiousity that compels people to immerse their minds into this subculture on a consistent basis. I think most people who indulge in such a subculture feel uninhibited to temporarily or persistently explore their sadistic impulses, which generally ties into psychosexual undercurrents, aesthetic preferences, or complex psychological projection (e.g., dancing in mother's skin). I am arguing the growth of nihilism and materialism enables people to feel this is permissible, by lack of inhibition, and the only reason many do not act upon such urges in public in the modern age is due to fear of repercussions.

Also, I know this may make some people raise their eyebrow, but I also believe that wealthy and powerful individuals are involved in organ and human trafficking, including cuisine of endangered animals. I feel many would justify their transgressive actions through nihilist discourse...

In other words, nihilists have no place lecturing others about justice since an icy bleak universe has no uncoverable objective moral properties, providing no normative values. With the increasing popularity of nihilism and materialistic atheism, we will see more indifference towards transgressive behavior. However, my personal sentiment in regards to these sociological effects of these positions have no bearing on its truth or lack thereof. If reality truly is an indifferent flux of material constituents, then I accept that war, murder/genicide, human trafficking, and so forth are neither good nor bad but with sorrow. Some will revel, however, hence the site Karno moderated had many members.