Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by Cnev

Poseurs can be found everywhere. Just look at pop culture, for instance. All people are striving for something, and there is a lot of identity-searching that goes along with that. Who really knows who they are? Searching for that is difficult, and can lead people down some very awkward and cringey paths. Life is hard, especially when it's in alignment with a person's truth about themselves and their lives. It's easy to get derailed, and find ourselves in unknown internal territories. Navigating out of them in the dark isn't easy, and maybe a person navigates into areas that aren't really who they are in a attempt to find a way to live a life. There's nothing wrong with that. It's difficult.

Good response, I just wish more nihilists would let go of their resentments. Sometimes you get a sense that someone's pronouncements about existence are just some sort of revenge on their parents and teachers.

I was thinking that a lot virtue signalling should maybe be forgiven more often because of something similar to the complexities you mention. When you're discussing social justice on a regular basis it's probably easier to fall into but with worse consequences than nihilistic posturing.

[Insentient Traveler]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Quote Originally Posted by Cnev Poseurs can be found everywhere. Just look at pop culture, for instance. All people are striving for something, and there is a lot of identity-searching that goes along with that. Who really knows who they are? Searching for that is difficult, and can lead people down some very awkward and cringey paths. Life is hard, especially when it's in alignment with a person's truth about themselves and their lives. It's easy to get derailed, and find ourselves in unknown internal territories. Navigating out of them in the dark isn't easy, and maybe a person navigates into areas that aren't really who they are in a attempt to find a way to live a life. There's nothing wrong with that. It's difficult. Good response, I just wish more nihilists would let go of their resentments. Sometimes you get a sense that someone's pronouncements about existence are just some sort of revenge on their parents and teachers. I was thinking that a lot virtue signalling should maybe be forgiven more often because of something similar to the complexities you mention. When you're discussing social justice on a regular basis it's probably easier to fall into but with worse consequences than nihilistic posturing.

"Nihilists, huh? Say what you want about the tenents of national socialism at least it's an ethos."
---from The Big Lebowski

[Cnev]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Good response, I just wish more nihilists would let go of their resentments. Sometimes you get a sense that someone's pronouncements about existence are just some sort of revenge on their parents and teachers. I was thinking that a lot virtue signalling should maybe be forgiven more often because of something similar to the complexities you mention. When you're discussing social justice on a regular basis it's probably easier to fall into but with worse consequences than nihilistic posturing.

I hear you, I've just let go of wanting or needing people to be anything at all. Maybe that is a bad thing, I don't know. It does allow me to accept and care about people more, but it also makes me more neutral when it comes to human behavior in general. There are so many things about being human that eludes personal control. I ultimately feel sorry for everyone.

[ramonoski]

Jig's up, I guess. I admit I've only been pretending to be an introverted pessimist in the hopes someone would take pity of me and offer to pay my dry-cleaning bills.

[Evans]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Not really a rant. I love this forum and I like most of the people here but on occasion I roll my eyes at some statements about existence or human life, not because I completely disagree (sometimes I do, sometimes I dont) but the manner in which it's expressed. It can seem a bit performative. Sometimes they're talking about the meaninglessness of everything, in a manner perhaps a bit too grand and majestic for someone who believes that. Or maybe I've misunderstood them? Why does nihilism sometimes attract poseurs, with sometimes fascist leanings? I'd like to know exactly what inspired the depiction of nihilists in The Big Lebowski. It's funny to imagine them based on real people. In dark and heavy music in particular there is a lot of this. Even some musicians I deeply respect define themselves too much in opposition to the people they don't like. I don't believe you can properly flourish if you focus on being the opposite of people you hate, you might end up even being a sort of similar yet distorted mirror image of them. Boyd Rice exudes some of these qualities so much I don't really want to listen to his music. I recently read a negative review of Huysmans that suggests he's a bit like some of this. Is he? Is it a part of decadent art to be selfconsciously outrageous? Thoughts?

The term Nihilism is unhelpful here. In some cases what we have is a form or derivative of Nietzschean where the focus is on an intoxicating aesthetic (indeed the pursuit of this aesthetic, itself arbitrary and like all else unjustifiable, becomes the sole imposed telos of existence). Even if they do not consciously admit this to be the case/or take it to its logical conclusions it is this kind of 'Nihilism' which has a big place in the alternative music community. There's a number of reasons for this e.g. the traditional Dionysian role of music and the historical influence of Nietzsche on Euro-Paganism and the counter-culture right.

Death In June - Death Is The Martyr Of Beauty - YouTube

Huysmans is a different case. As an individual he was neurotically sensitive to both visual ugliness and beauty. The French Naturalist school of literature from which he emerged also made a point of focusing on the most grimy and downbeat aspects of modern life as a way to scandalize and (sometimes) raise awareness of social corruption. Husymans took the same approach first to illustrate the philosophy of Schopenhauer and later the truth of a certain kind of Catholicism.

Quote Originally Posted by Raul Urraca

Nowadays, any sort of unusual belief-system attracts edgelords. Nihilism is pretty edgy, and fascism is even moreso; I imagine certain people like to combine the two to achieve maximum 9edgy18me. Also, the promise of destroying all moral claims attracts people that are called immoral (such as fascists, along with other political zealots).

I wouldn't deny this connection, however ultimately the two are incompatible. Like any political system Fascism must contain normative elements which of course are incompatible with the denial of objective values.

Quote Originally Posted by Raul Urraca

Certain pessimists / nihilists / antinatalists lack a sense of humor. I try to use humor to soften my rantings on the awfulness of things. A little jocularity goes a long way. Another thing to consider is that people often sound silly whenever they talk about their feelings (especially those of existential dread/despair). I don't think it's a good thing to directly talk about one's feelings. I think the antinatalist / nihilist / pessimist community should devote more time to making good memes and ####posting; IMO this would be very productive.

Productive of what?

Quote Originally Posted by Nirvana In Karma

I second Raul. Life is a joke, so why not laugh?

There is as much reason to laugh as not to laugh, that is none at all. People still have a tendency to dive for moral indignation if one laughs at or wills the suffering of others however.

[Malone]

"Since we do not exist outside or apart from Life, we are part of the joke & the joke itself does not laugh." Ibrahim, genius!

The fetishisation of humour and irony is just another form of smugness. Tell someone being bombed or with agonising cancer to laugh. Humour is great when it's natural, not when it's part of some Pollyanna uplift or Smug Commentary program.

[Karnos]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Boyd Rice exudes some of these qualities so much I don't really want to listen to his music.

To be honest, Boyd Rice's limited thematic interests should be enough not to want to listen to him much.

Mind it, I do like his ambient recordings, and Music, Martinis and Misanthropy is still the brilliant, beautiful, gem of his life's work. But other than that, it's all the same. His fixation with Might is Right politics is a notable dent on his music. Everything is about strength, and crushing the weak, and jada jada jada... there is no variation, no evolution, no nothing. Just the same boring crap.

End of my rant.

I do agree with the rest of your points, by the way.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by Evans

I wouldn't deny this connection, however ultimately the two are incompatible. Like any political system Fascism must contain normative elements which of course are incompatible with the denial of objective values.

Whenever I see people like this who are punky Stalinists or cyber bully MRA white nationalists I wonder how they'd feel if they got everything they wanted. Would they be happy being one of millions of conforming squares in the new regime or would they just hate it?
Who are the ones who want an easy life and who needs to be an angry underdog?

[Raul Urraca]

Quote Originally Posted by Evans

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour Not really a rant. I love this forum and I like most of the people here but on occasion I roll my eyes at some statements about existence or human life, not because I completely disagree (sometimes I do, sometimes I dont) but the manner in which it's expressed. It can seem a bit performative. Sometimes they're talking about the meaninglessness of everything, in a manner perhaps a bit too grand and majestic for someone who believes that. Or maybe I've misunderstood them? Why does nihilism sometimes attract poseurs, with sometimes fascist leanings? I'd like to know exactly what inspired the depiction of nihilists in The Big Lebowski. It's funny to imagine them based on real people. In dark and heavy music in particular there is a lot of this. Even some musicians I deeply respect define themselves too much in opposition to the people they don't like. I don't believe you can properly flourish if you focus on being the opposite of people you hate, you might end up even being a sort of similar yet distorted mirror image of them. Boyd Rice exudes some of these qualities so much I don't really want to listen to his music. I recently read a negative review of Huysmans that suggests he's a bit like some of this. Is he? Is it a part of decadent art to be selfconsciously outrageous? Thoughts? The term Nihilism is unhelpful here. In some cases what we have is a form or derivative of Nietzschean where the focus is on an intoxicating aesthetic (indeed the pursuit of this aesthetic, itself arbitrary and like all else unjustifiable, becomes the sole imposed telos of existence). Even if they do not consciously admit this to be the case/or take it to its logical conclusions it is this kind of 'Nihilism' which has a big place in the alternative music community. There's a number of reasons for this e.g. the traditional Dionysian role of music and the historical influence of Nietzsche on Euro-Paganism and the counter-culture right. Death In June - Death Is The Martyr Of Beauty - YouTube Huysmans is a different case. As an individual he was neurotically sensitive to both visual ugliness and beauty. The French Naturalist school of literature from which he emerged also made a point of focusing on the most grimy and downbeat aspects of modern life as a way to scandalize and (sometimes) raise awareness of social corruption. Husymans took the same approach first to illustrate the philosophy of Schopenhauer and later the truth of a certain kind of Catholicism. Quote Originally Posted by Raul Urraca Nowadays, any sort of unusual belief-system attracts edgelords. Nihilism is pretty edgy, and fascism is even moreso; I imagine certain people like to combine the two to achieve maximum 9edgy18me. Also, the promise of destroying all moral claims attracts people that are called immoral (such as fascists, along with other political zealots). I wouldn't deny this connection, however ultimately the two are incompatible. Like any political system Fascism must contain normative elements which of course are incompatible with the denial of objective values. Quote Originally Posted by Raul Urraca Certain pessimists / nihilists / antinatalists lack a sense of humor. I try to use humor to soften my rantings on the awfulness of things. A little jocularity goes a long way. Another thing to consider is that people often sound silly whenever they talk about their feelings (especially those of existential dread/despair). I don't think it's a good thing to directly talk about one's feelings. I think the antinatalist / nihilist / pessimist community should devote more time to making good memes and ####posting; IMO this would be very productive. Productive of what? Quote Originally Posted by Nirvana In Karma I second Raul. Life is a joke, so why not laugh? There is as much reason to laugh as not to laugh, that is none at all. People still have a tendency to dive for moral indignation if one laughs at or wills the suffering of others however.

Nihilism destroys all moral claims, so it makes it quite difficult to support any political platform. TBH, I've only seen a handful of nihilist-fascists, so I'm extrapolating. It could be that a love of black clothing unites certain fascists with nihilists.
One oughtn't to go too far with humor and irony; it's better not to be the Fortunato to someone's Montressor.
I think memes and ####posting would be a good way to avoid suffering and get the message out to the world at large.
We could do a lot with Wojak. He fits the pessimist's purposes quite well.

[DarkView]

This is reminiscent of some thoughts I had on many people who call themselves atheists as reactionnaires and consequently can be called poseurs. In any event, a poseur tries on a new identity for the same reason any member of the herd maintains herd behavior: to stay or become part of a group. There is no real thought as to what nihilism, or any misanthropic philosophy, entails, as it was not arrived at by any real reflection. Anger, exclusion, misjudgment, disenfranchisement, etc. probably have much more to do with such poseurs than serious philosophical thought.