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Old 06-09-2017   #11
The Crawling Chaos
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Re: The cyclical nature of the cosmos (headed for a new Dark Age)

Quote Originally Posted by Karnos View Post
But just to entertain a thought, I guess if all time exists already, you could see it the way a novel or short story is written. Everything is contained within the text, you can jump pages, go forward or go backwards and double check to see if everything remains the same. If there is an illusion of linearity it is only because you're reading the text as such. I suppose that, if everything is already laid out, then maybe God, or something, does exist
Does that metaphor really work? Within the book, past, present and future are still clearly delineated. There can be no page 25 without the 24 others that preceded it, and page 25 never exists on the same temporal plane as any other page in the book.

Sure, you are free to skip pages or go back and read it over, but the book will always be made of one word that leads to another that leads to another until it finishes, and so every word is its own present moment and becomes the past as soon as your eyes move on to the next.

You can't just look at the book and say that it contains past, present and future as a simultaneous event. It contains a succession of words that follow a certain order, just like time is made out of a succession of events that follow a certain order. And while you're certainly free to read page 30 and have a quick look back at page 29, just as one would revisit a memory or look at a picture from their childhood, that will never change the factual position of either page in the grand scheme of things.

So I think it is inescapable that time "flows" whether we perceive it accurately or not (it might be slower than what we perceive, it might be faster that what we perceive, it might be more erratic than what we perceive, but there has to be a page one followed by a page two, and pages one and two can never be the same page).

So it seems to me that your theory only works if you're saying that past, present and future have already happened - but are not simultaneous - and we are beings from the far future who have already reached the end of time (but then where are we?), reliving past moments as the present, like readers going through a sentence in a book that was written decades earlier by its author.

If you don't mind sharing your experiences, I would love to read more about the precognitive events you mentioned.
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Old 06-10-2017   #12
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Re: The cyclical nature of the cosmos (headed for a new Dark Age)

Quote Originally Posted by The Crawling Chaos View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Karnos View Post
But just to entertain a thought, I guess if all time exists already, you could see it the way a novel or short story is written. Everything is contained within the text, you can jump pages, go forward or go backwards and double check to see if everything remains the same. If there is an illusion of linearity it is only because you're reading the text as such. I suppose that, if everything is already laid out, then maybe God, or something, does exist
Does that metaphor really work? Within the book, past, present and future are still clearly delineated. There can be no page 25 without the 24 others that preceded it, and page 25 never exists on the same temporal plane as any other page in the book.

Sure, you are free to skip pages or go back and read it over, but the book will always be made of one word that leads to another that leads to another until it finishes, and so every word is its own present moment and becomes the past as soon as your eyes move on to the next.

You can't just look at the book and say that it contains past, present and future as a simultaneous event. It contains a succession of words that follow a certain order, just like time is made out of a succession of events that follow a certain order. And while you're certainly free to read page 30 and have a quick look back at page 29, just as one would revisit a memory or look at a picture from their childhood, that will never change the factual position of either page in the grand scheme of things.

So I think it is inescapable that time "flows" whether we perceive it accurately or not (it might be slower than what we perceive, it might be faster that what we perceive, it might be more erratic than what we perceive, but there has to be a page one followed by a page two, and pages one and two can never be the same page).

So it seems to me that your theory only works if you're saying that past, present and future have already happened - but are not simultaneous - and we are beings from the far future who have already reached the end of time (but then where are we?), reliving past moments as the present, like readers going through a sentence in a book that was written decades earlier by its author.
I suppose you're right. The book metaphor doesn't quiet explain what I have in mind. Perhaps something closer to Borges' Aleph would, though. That is, however, too metaphysical and I'm trying to think about something more concrete in our present reality to have a more accurate visual description. In my mind I visualizare the Universe as some kind of multidimensional, multitemporal origami ball with folds and crevices. Maybe some exotic particle at the microcosmic scale might give a better visual cue? My knowledge of physics is limited to only what I've read in pop science, so there is also that.

Quote Originally Posted by The Crawling Chaos View Post
If you don't mind sharing your experiences, I would love to read more about the precognitive events you mentioned.
Sure.

This is a new phenomenon for me. It has been going on since 2010. I have experienced peaks in activity and moments when nothing happens. Right now I'm going through one of those peak moments. The precognition is usually of mundane things, but every now and then something of more concrete substance takes place.

For me it works at both the dream state and the wakeful state. In the dream state I've had two kinds of precognitive dreams; mundane and meaningful, but both of them are vivid.

Mundane precognitive dreams are the bulk of these precognition events, usually involve me being in a given situation, either a place where something happens, or with people. An example that happened two months ago. I had a dream fragment where I was inside an elevator, surrounded by three Asian people in suits, two of them checking their mobile phones. I had this dream fragment a long time ago, maybe last year, and I remember it because, as I've said, they are incredibly vivid.

Last month I had to go to the Mafre tower, here in Barcelona. With me, inside the elevator, there were three Asian men in suits, two of them checking their mobiles.

Now, this could very well be a mind trick. You experience something in the real world that is eerily similar to something you experience in the dream world, and through brain chemistry, you believe them to be the same event. It could very well be the case, and that is why I am always skeptical when I experience this kind of mundane event.

However, things become more interesting with meaningful precognitive dreams. These ones are always symbolic and vivid as well, and I've had a dozen or so of them. Two recent examples:

Early this year, around February, I dreamed that I tried to get inside a walled garden. The walls were red and tall, with no discernible features, however, tree canopies were visible above, and the noises of birds and other animals could be heard. I walk around the circumference of the garden, until I found a closed black gate. On the other side of it, inside the garden, there was a man dressed in white. He came closer to the iron gate and told me that I could not go inside, because I wasn't allowed to go in yet. The man in question, was the father of a friend of mine I hadn't seen in two years. I had met the man before and made good connection with him because both of us have a love for parks and gardens. When I woke up, I had the certainty that the garden itself represented the realm of Death, and the man in my dream, inside the garden (my friends father) was a message from my own subconscious telling me to enjoy my life while I still have it (around that time, early this year, I was going through mild depression, monotony and despair at my present financial and personal situation).

Three or four days latter, while walking in one of my favorite parks around here, I saw my friend (the daughter of the man in white in my dream), the one I hadn't seen in two years, sitting alone on a bench. She told me that her father had died the night before (two or three days after I dreamed of him). A vigil service was provided in a chapel and she asked me if I wanted to attend, which I did. When I saw him in the casket, he looked just like in my dream. Not only that, he was also dressed in white, like in the dream.

Again, being skeptical, this could all have been chance. But there are many similar elements within both the dreamworld and the real world to give me pause. The man dressed in white inside the garden, father of a friend I hadn't seen in two years, a person I had no reason at all to dream of. The garden that I knew, when I woke up, to mean death. Finding my friend in a garden, after two years of not seeing her, and being told, in the garden, that her father had died the night before, two or three days after my dream.

Another recent example of dream precognition, this one not too byzantine, and as recent as three weeks ago. A friend of mine, from Mexico, sends me (in the dream) a physical letter. It's impossible to read in dreams, even lucid ones. Texts don't make sense, but you know what's the message in there. He writes that we will see each other soon.

The next day I got a Facebook PM. The same friend wrote that he was going to Poland for work related issues (he works for a big cement company with international presence), but after that he would begin his vacations and wanted to visit Barcelona, Stockholm and Amsterdam. We arranged to meet. (I'm in Barcelona)

Before, I mentioned that I also have had precognition events while awake. They are also of a more mundane variety, but leave a weird sensation afterwards. They always involve people, (not places or events) usually seconds before I see them. It is hard for me to explain this one, so I will use a very simple example.

Suppose I'm outside a building and I am going to walk inside. As I am about to enter, a woman, for this example's sake, with a flamboyant dress and a silly hat (or something else that clearly differentiates her from anyone else) walks out and passes by me. As soon as I am inside the building, I see the same woman, with the same dress and hat, walk pass me as she goes out.

Like that. Nothing prophetic of any kind, but weird nonetheless. These cases have been rare and always with people that have no relationship with me. Complete strangers. I'm sure that some of these instances are just cases of people with similar clothing and/or facial features, but there have been four or five instances when I am certain they were the same people.

One of these cases happened while I was with my girlfriend, so she was a witness. We were at a nature reserve up north, a place where the attraction is a series of waterfalls through a somewhat treacherous terrain. It is not the kind of place where you would go with elegant clothes, but on our way back from seeing one of these waterfalls, we saw a very elegant man, with an umbrella, amidst the vines and trying his best not to fall into the small creek while braving the very steep road and the rock wall by our side. He asked us if there was a waterfall ahead, and of course, we told him there was, and we didn't think much about him, other than the weirdness of finding a guy in such elegant clothes in a place like that. A minute or so latter, we saw the same guy, with an umbrella, walking our way, towards the waterfall we had left behind. He didn't ask anything, didn't even look at us. I kept shut about it, but it was my girlfriend the one who pointed out it was the same guy, so she saw him too. There was no way for him to go back the way he had come without us noticing, since the road, as I said, was very steep. To our left was the creek, so we would have noticed a man on it. To our right a rock wall, and there was just no way for this man to climb it, run all the way back, climb it down and then walk again through the same steep road towards the waterfall. The only sensible explanation I can think of, is that what we saw was the previous man's twin.

Does that make sense? I know it is hard to explain this example on written form.

Anyway, these are just a few examples. I am aware there could be many other possible explanations, so I am not married to my interpretation of the events. However I do think the universe is far stranger than what modern science gives it credit for, and I have no issues accepting the possibilities of something, for a lack of a better term, supernatural, being a structural part of the whole. This belief in no way invalidates the scientific method or the aggregate of our scientific knowledge. Science, after all, is about improving itself.

Anyway, people die...
-Current 93


I am simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?
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Old 06-11-2017   #13
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Re: The cyclical nature of the cosmos (headed for a new Dark Age)

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Old 06-11-2017   #14
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Re: The cyclical nature of the cosmos (headed for a new Dark Age)

For some the New Dark Age is already here.

This is what I meant when I wrote "pseudo-science religion."
I hope Hubbard is burning in his own little space in Hell.

How come no one asks Tom Cruise about Scientology? | New York Post
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