THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK
Go Back   THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK > Discussion & Interpretation > Other Authors > General Discussion
Home Forums Content Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Contagion Members Media Diversion Info Register
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes Translate
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
Nemonymous's Avatar
Nemonymous
Grimscribe
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,415
Quotes: 0
Points: 139,800, Level: 100 Points: 139,800, Level: 100 Points: 139,800, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
Horror or Weird Fiction


MY WEBSITE: www.nemonymous.com
Nemonymous is online now   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
Gnosticangel (4 Weeks Ago), miguel1984 (4 Weeks Ago), yellowish haze (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
T.E. Grau's Avatar
T.E. Grau
Mystic
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 248
Quotes: 0
Points: 12,865, Level: 78 Points: 12,865, Level: 78 Points: 12,865, Level: 78
Level up: 33% Level up: 33% Level up: 33%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

In my (worthless) opinion, Weird Fiction is a sub-genre of Horror Fiction.

Descriptions of what makes a tale Weird instead of just merely Horror vary by individual, but that's how I see it.

I'm not sure if country of origin plays into the categorization (as the aesthetics of the story acts as the largest determining factor), but I could be wrong.

TEG

Last edited by T.E. Grau; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:35 PM..
T.E. Grau is offline   Reply With Quote
7 Thanks From:
Hidden X (4 Weeks Ago), miguel1984 (4 Weeks Ago), Mr. Veech (4 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), Trau (4 Weeks Ago), waffles (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
luciferfell's Avatar
luciferfell
Chymist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 304
Quotes: 0
Points: 15,703, Level: 86 Points: 15,703, Level: 86 Points: 15,703, Level: 86
Level up: 44% Level up: 44% Level up: 44%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

I have always seen it as Weird Fiction as a huge genre umbrella with Horror, Fantasy, and SciFi falling under it. There is a lot of Weird fiction that definitely could not be called Horror. I think most of Jeff Vandermeer's work, for example, would be Weird but not Horror. Or Cisco's work. Or Ruthanna Emrys's work. But I think all Horror could be considered to be Weird fiction.
luciferfell is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Thanks From:
miguel1984 (4 Weeks Ago), Mr. Veech (4 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), Patrick G.P (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
Mr. Veech's Avatar
Mr. Veech
Grimscribe
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 754
Quotes: 0
Points: 11,256, Level: 73 Points: 11,256, Level: 73 Points: 11,256, Level: 73
Level up: 36% Level up: 36% Level up: 36%
Activity: 21% Activity: 21% Activity: 21%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

"Horror" strikes me as a contemporary label with a very limited meaning.

I view Weird Fiction as an extension of Gothic literature, which is more or less an extension of Romanticism. Romanticism itself was partially the dark underside of the Enlightenment. It's about the impotence of "reason" in the face of existence.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
Mr. Veech is offline   Reply With Quote
6 Thanks From:
Gnosticangel (4 Weeks Ago), miguel1984 (4 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), qcrisp (4 Weeks Ago), Robert Adam Gilmour (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
James's Avatar
James
Grimscribe
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,748
Quotes: 0
Points: 19,664, Level: 96 Points: 19,664, Level: 96 Points: 19,664, Level: 96
Level up: 91% Level up: 91% Level up: 91%
Activity: 93% Activity: 93% Activity: 93%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

Not all weird fiction is horror. Walter de la Mare's The House and Arthur Machen's The Great Return are examples of positive stories that deal with themes of supernaturalism or alternative layers of existence, which to me are probably the two most common themes of the genre and the closest to constants.

By that same token, not all horror is weird fiction. One would hardly refer to Psycho or The Texas Chainsaw Massacre as weird fiction. Sheer madness if you do. Not all horror is necessarily trying to frighten the reader wither, which further muddies the water. .

Genre labels are generally imprecise and somewhat useless, so as always they should only be prioritised by those interested in marketing or those looking to simply save time in conversation. There are few things more tedious to debate than genre labels, but my preferred names are gothic and ghostly fiction over horror or weird.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
James is offline   Reply With Quote
7 Thanks From:
Gnosticangel (4 Weeks Ago), miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Mr. Veech (4 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), Patrick G.P (4 Weeks Ago), yellowish haze (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
Knygathin's Avatar
Knygathin
Mystic
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 175
Quotes: 0
Points: 4,668, Level: 46 Points: 4,668, Level: 46 Points: 4,668, Level: 46
Level up: 59% Level up: 59% Level up: 59%
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

I think "supernatural fiction" is the best overall term.

"Weird fiction" hearkens back to the days of Weird Tales magazine. The term "weird" is still used today and understood, especially by the initiated. But to the general public, I believe the supernatural meaning that we, the historically knowledgeable, automatically ascribe to "weird", comes across as a blank, and instead to them the term has a negative resonance, simply meaning "odd" in an annoying way. In today's materialistic age the word "weird" has lost its supernatural significance, and is regularly used instead to describe a socially disturbed individual or circumstance.

I think "weird fiction", specifically, is supernatural fiction with a strong element of fantasy to it. Strange and and colorful environments, bizarre creatures, outré physical conditions, etc. Like in the stories of H. P. Lovecraft and C. A. Smith. As opposed to for example the work of Algernon Blackwood, which gives a supernatural perspective on reality, mainly on a spiritual level, but without much fantasy to it.

Last edited by Knygathin; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:18 AM..
Knygathin is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Thanks From:
miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), yellowish haze (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
Ibrahim
Chymist
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 361
Quotes: 0
Points: 4,588, Level: 46 Points: 4,588, Level: 46 Points: 4,588, Level: 46
Level up: 19% Level up: 19% Level up: 19%
Activity: 29% Activity: 29% Activity: 29%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

I'm with mr. Veech; we're just trying to come up with new names for what is essentially The Gothic.

Although i wouldn't link it to the enlightenment as a counterbalance - that would make the enlightenment appear more rational than it was.

There is the sense that The Gothic describes a Lack, though - something lost. That lack could very well have been reason, and The Gothic may paradoxically have been more reasonable, more enlightened to look at the French Revolution and see the horror instead of the fraternité, liberté and egalité...

"What can a thing do with a thing, when it is a thing?"
-Shaykh Ibn Al 'Arabi
Ibrahim is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Thanks From:
miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), qcrisp (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
Robert Adam Gilmour
Grimscribe
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,483
Quotes: 0
Points: 22,460, Level: 100 Points: 22,460, Level: 100 Points: 22,460, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 64% Activity: 64% Activity: 64%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

I think the problem with calling it gothic is that most weird fiction would seem insufficiently gothic.

Robert Adam Gilmour is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #9
Mr. Veech's Avatar
Mr. Veech
Grimscribe
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 754
Quotes: 0
Points: 11,256, Level: 73 Points: 11,256, Level: 73 Points: 11,256, Level: 73
Level up: 36% Level up: 36% Level up: 36%
Activity: 21% Activity: 21% Activity: 21%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
I think the problem with calling it gothic is that most weird fiction would seem insufficiently gothic.
Certainly, there are always exceptions. However, I think the "masters" worked firmly within the Gothic tradition on some level. I think Poe, Machen, Blackwood, James, Bierce, Lovecraft, Aickman, and Ligotti fit the description well.

I personally love the label. It might be said that the Weird redefined (or broadened the scope of) the Gothic. It would be interesting to hear what Joshi and Cardin think. In any case, I don't think "horror" is informative; I think of Halloween or Saw when I think of horror.

EDIT: We can't forget the Southern Gothic, of which Padgett's Secret as well as Wehunt's Greener Pastures are both contemporary examples.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
Mr. Veech is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
Gnosticangel (4 Weeks Ago), miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago)
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #10
Gnosticangel's Avatar
Gnosticangel
Chymist
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 344
Quotes: 0
Points: 9,179, Level: 66 Points: 9,179, Level: 66 Points: 9,179, Level: 66
Level up: 44% Level up: 44% Level up: 44%
Activity: 71% Activity: 71% Activity: 71%
Re: Horror or Weird Fiction

Mr. Veech wrote, "Certainly, there are always exceptions. However, I think the "masters" worked firmly within the Gothic tradition on some level. I think Poe, Machen, Blackwood, James, Bierce, Lovecraft, Aickman, and Ligotti fit the description well."

As I love these great Gothic writers above all, I would agree completely with this except that the area of "exceptions" contains some rather large categories, from the Symbolists and Decadents, to the Fabulists, Surrealists and on through Magical Realism.

Perhaps everyone doesn't see these as part of Weird Fiction, but surely Rodenbach, Huysmans , Quiroga, Calvino, Borges, Buzzati, CA Smith, Lafcadio Hearn, Michael Cisco and Rhys Hughes belong there, to name just a few?

Last edited by Gnosticangel; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:46 PM..
Gnosticangel is offline   Reply With Quote
5 Thanks From:
miguel1984 (3 Weeks Ago), Mr. Veech (4 Weeks Ago), Nemonymous (4 Weeks Ago), rhysaurus (4 Weeks Ago), Zaharoff (4 Weeks Ago)
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
fiction, horror, weird

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
African Weird Fiction Nirvana In Karma General Discussion 5 06-23-2016 01:44 PM
Weird Fiction Review #6 waffles Other Authors 5 06-20-2016 01:05 AM
Recommendations for weird fiction symbolique Other Authors 22 12-05-2011 05:42 AM
Weird Fiction Review Freyasfire Other News 1 11-22-2010 11:07 AM
Weird Fiction, New & High Weird, Psycho-fantasy... yellowish haze General Discussion 11 01-19-2009 04:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:13 AM.



Style Based on SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER as Published by Silver Scarab Press
Design and Artwork by Harry Morris
Emulated in Hell by Dr. Bantham
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS