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Old 09-28-2015   #31
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

The Frontier Death Song thing was about the two of them absconded as an odd couple and less of a homophobic joke.

You post a why so serious picture yet your long response seems very serious.

I'm not trying to attack the book. I think it'a a cool idea. As I was reading through the thread I just noticed a shift.

As for the story and who it was meant to be about - I can't recall all the details, but I remember it being rather upsetting to quite a few people, and I most definitely recall some attacks on her character,

Either way. As a fan of Mark's work, I look forward to checking this book out.

Justin Steele

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Old 09-28-2015   #32
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Oh come on....Mark Samuels referenced my sister, Sylvia, in a story in the Sixth Black Book (March 2010) and called it Keeping your Mouth Shut. It wasn’t a coincidence he took Walter Maitland from my fifth story in Bull Running, and Sylvia from the thirteenth story and you have Sylvia Maitland. Then he cuts her head off and puts it in a fridge. Calls me the frustrated housewife (might have said I was living in Sheffield which I was ...will check that) with writing as a hobby and a knack for self promotion and eliciting sympathy. The bottom of my thirteenth story in Bull Running for Girls (published 2008) says it is a tribute to her and the day she died etc.…and Samuels knew she had died as he sent me a condolence email before I won the award.

'Yes, I remember certain female author too who became very upset when Mark and others voiced skepticism over whether collection deserved the award it won, or whether said award should have went to Paul Meloy's Islington Crocodiles. Not having read her collection I cannot comment here (for it's worth I hated IC). Mark wrote to her soon after it became apparent that she actually was quite upset as opposed to just annoyed; unfortunately she wasn't interested in letting it die there, and in consequence the controversy later spilled over into plans into another publication.

As to stories featuring fictionalized versions of that woman I can say there were none. There was a scholky Black Book of Horror type story, which I have not read, about a celebrity wanna-be which featured references to necrophelia - I am assuming this is the one you are referring to - but that was inspired by some what different events. Unfortunately, but perhaps not unreasonably the woman in question took it as an attack on her and her sister who had recently passed-away. Realistically even if Mark had wanted to attack her in that way he couldn't have as no-one knew about the sister's death until this came up. '
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Old 09-28-2015   #33
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Drama and controversy are breaking out in the thread!!! I'm going to take this to Skype, and everyone is welcome to join me, regardless of their views. Please add:

infinitydoctors@yahoo.com
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Old 09-28-2015   #34
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Anyway here's the story list:

"The Shadowy Companion" - foreword by Mark Valentine

"Rapture" by Reggie Oliver
"The Golden Dustmen" by Colin Insole
"Canticle" by Daniel Mills
"White Light, White Heat" by Adam Nevill
"The Black Mass" by Justin Isis
"The Big-Headed People" by DF Lewis
"Attraction" by John Mundy
"The Early Signs of Blight" by Kristine Ong Muslim
"Chaoskampf" by James Champagne
"A Bad Un to Beat vs The High Gate Waterman: It's All About the Benjamins" by Brendan Connell and Quentin S. Crisp
"Language of the City" by Thana Niveau
"The Singular Quiddity of Merlin's Ear" by Simon Clark
"The Carnivore of Monsters" by Stuart Young
"The Men With Paper Faces" by John L. Probert
"Empty Houses" by Ralph C. Doege
"Reformation Theory" by Yarrow Paisley
"Prison Inquieta" by Jon Hersh
"Slag Glass Lachrimæ" by David Rix

Coda, by ????? aka Mystery Guest




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Old 09-28-2015   #35
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Homophobia? Please. Mentioning two men having sex is now homophobic? Actually, the only story Laird Barron might be mentioned in is the original Justin one posted here on TLO that was quite popular. I haven't actually read the other stories, but I don't believe anyone cared enough to put Laird Barron in them. Funny that there is a demand for tastefulness though from "horror" writers and fans. Or, for that matter, anything involving writing. Or wait, is this where fans of young adult Harry Potter gather? As for other stories Mark wrote that might have involved other people - I don't think Justin or Dan were thinking of that when they made their joking comments. It does seem however that a number of people don't like Mark, even if they claim, or maybe actually do, like his fiction. But this anthology revolves around Mark and his fiction and his ideas. But given the opportunity to bash him, many seem ready. If he did something bad, forgive him if you can, and if you can't then don't jumble that rancor up with everything else that might involve him. Obviously each author approaches these in their own way. But all that I have seen on this thread is a bit of harmless joking. A couple of guys joking about sex doesn't, and shouldn't, be seen as offensive.
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Old 09-28-2015   #36
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

I think these writers, every one of them, were too intent in creating the most frightening or surprising tale they could to think about old feuds.
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Old 09-28-2015   #37
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Quote Originally Posted by brendanconnell View Post
Homophobia? Please. Mentioning two men having sex is now homophobic? Actually, the only story Laird Barron might be mentioned in is the original Justin one posted here on TLO that was quite popular. I haven't actually read the other stories, but I don't believe anyone cared enough to put Laird Barron in them. Funny that there is a demand for tastefulness though from "horror" writers and fans. Or, for that matter, anything involving writing. Or wait, is this where fans of young adult Harry Potter gather? As for other stories Mark wrote that might have involved other people - I don't think Justin or Dan were thinking of that when they made their joking comments. It does seem however that a number of people don't like Mark, even if they claim, or maybe actually do, like his fiction. But this anthology revolves around Mark and his fiction and his ideas. But given the opportunity to bash him, many seem ready. If he did something bad, forgive him if you can, and if you can't then don't jumble that rancor up with everything else that might involve him. Obviously each author approaches these in their own way. But all that I have seen on this thread is a bit of harmless joking. A couple of guys joking about sex doesn't, and shouldn't, be seen as offensive.
I don't just claim to like his fiction, I truly do. I don't know why that must be questioned. I've favorably reviewed four of his collections, and even put some considerable effort into finding and obtaining a copy of his Black Altars simply because I enjoyed his fiction enough to want to read EVERYTHNING he's written.

I'm not intent on bashing him either. I don't like some of the things I've seen on forums over the years, but I don't personally know him enough to dislike him.

The jokes, to me, read "we'll make jokes at Laird's expense by writing about him and other men having sex." Which is a juvenile way to mock someone. The type of mockery my students would engage in with each other. If it's meant to mock, or ridicule it implies that homosexuality isn't normal or favorable. "Let's make him look gay because he will hate that!" Once again, maybe I'm reading too much into it? You could argue that the mocking of MS in "More Dark" was juvenile too, so I guess it doesn't matter either way.

I'm not trying to hurt interest in this anthology, and maybe they were just joking, and people aren't writing stories about "sled dogging" and I just read too much into it. If so, then that's my fault. I just recalled how up in arms everyone was over "More Dark" so I assumed they were being more serious.

I'm still planning to buy a copy of this, and looking at the table of contents I gather I'll quite enjoy it.

Justin Steele

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Old 09-28-2015   #38
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
I think these writers, every one of them, were too intent in creating the most frightening or surprising tale they could to think about old feuds.
That's what I'm hoping, for sure, because the book looks like it has lots of potential. I assumed that if they were bringing up the old feud on here in regards to the stories it meant that they did have in mind old feuds, but it appears they were just joking.

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Old 09-28-2015   #39
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

If those 'jokes' above were found objectionable (and it is regrettable if they were found objectionable), I think only two authors in the list of nineteen were making them.

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Old 09-28-2015   #40
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Re: The Mark Samuels tribute anthology

Quote Originally Posted by Malachi_Constant View Post
The jokes, to me, read "we'll make jokes at Laird's expense by writing about him and other men having sex." Which is a juvenile way to mock someone. The type of mockery my students would engage in with each other. If it's meant to mock, or ridicule it implies that homosexuality isn't normal or favorable.
I think Brendan was joking about him having sex with Bram Stoker, which is funny because it's Bram Stoker, not because the sex is homosexual.

In the sled dogging post I mentioned both Bram Stoker and Taylor Swift, implying that some kind of bisexual "sled dogging community" of Laird Barron fans was covertly and passionately writing stories of this sort (which is actually the case with slash fiction fans of other writers, actors, etc.).

For what it's worth, that's a gay Mark Samuels fan in my previous post holding a copy of Black Altars. Some of the authors contributing to Marked to Die are also gay (I'll let them identify themselves if they feel the need to).

I don't dislike Laird Barron, either personally or artistically.

I feel really stupid having to explain all this.
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