THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK
Go Back   THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK > Discussion & Interpretation > Other Authors
Home Forums Content Contagion Members Media Diversion Info Register
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes Translate
Old 08-16-2008   #1
trieffiewiles's Avatar
trieffiewiles
Chymist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 420
Quotes: 0
Points: 37,467, Level: 100 Points: 37,467, Level: 100 Points: 37,467, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 33% Activity: 33% Activity: 33%
Kafka's Porn

There are a few very interesting articles on some of the seedy publications that it turns out Kafka was involved with.

http://www.johncoulthart.com/feuille...porn-unveiled/

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle4446131.ece

As with Joel-Peter Witkin, Floria Sigismondi, Cormac McCarthy, and David Lynch prove in a contemporary setting, the highest art often stems from the lowest of places. Some of these critics of Kafka's newfound associations act as though they've been buried alive in a sterile (both physically and subjectively) Victorian library for generations.

It is true that there is always a tendency to place major cultural figures for whom little is generally known about, into a kind of sainthood, amongst those in acedemic fields, but crying out loud, there was no shortage of insanity, corruption, and general unpleasantness in Kafka's fiction, do these people really think a man like him, in his circumstances could be two totally different and unrelated people in both life and art?

They're reacting with shock at Aubrey Beardsley. Now he certainly contributed significantly, but classic erotica had far more grisly artists amongst their ranks. These have apparently never looked upon some of the lowbrow art of today either. Loosen you damn book nazis.
trieffiewiles is offline   Reply With Quote
4 Thanks From:
Cyril Tourneur (01-02-2010), Jezetha (08-17-2008), Ligeia (10-08-2008), Nirvana In Karma (06-14-2016)
Old 08-17-2008   #2
Jezetha's Avatar
Jezetha
Chymist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 359
Quotes: 0
Points: 11,922, Level: 75 Points: 11,922, Level: 75 Points: 11,922, Level: 75
Level up: 58% Level up: 58% Level up: 58%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Kafka's Porn

The Kafka scholars don't seem to know their Kafka. I have forgotten where the passage in question is, but in one story/novel there is a picture hanging on the wall of a woman in fur - an allusion to Sacher-Masoch's Venus im Pelz, according to one study I read. And I have in my possession a whole book devoted to the Kafkaesque Eros, in German - Rainer Stach's Kafkas erotischer Mythos. And, finally, Kafka went to a brothel once (or more often, I don't know anymore).

So - Kafka a saint? No. And why should he be?
Jezetha is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Cyril Tourneur (01-02-2010), Nirvana In Karma (06-14-2016)
Old 08-17-2008   #3
Odalisque's Avatar
Odalisque
Grimscribe
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,943
Quotes: 0
Points: 45,811, Level: 100 Points: 45,811, Level: 100 Points: 45,811, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 50% Activity: 50% Activity: 50%
Re: Kafka's Porn

Des would say something about intentionality -- but my feeling is that artsists remain essentially the same person in life and art. Life informs art. It's hard to see how it could be otherwise.

Odalisque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008   #4
Nemonymous's Avatar
Nemonymous
Grimscribe
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,895
Quotes: 0
Points: 276,156, Level: 100 Points: 276,156, Level: 100 Points: 276,156, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 25% Activity: 25% Activity: 25%
Re: Kafka's Porn

Life creates art, true, but who knows what baffles or two-way filters intervene in that process. Even when assessing the self itself.
Nemonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2008   #5
bendk's Avatar
bendk
Grimscribe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,384
Quotes: 1
Points: 419,731, Level: 100 Points: 419,731, Level: 100 Points: 419,731, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
Re: Kafka's Porn

There are some memoirs of people who knew Kafka personally that made him out to be wise and kind to a saintly degree. Then there was Max Brod's biography that tried to imply that Kafka was a very religious person. Those are the only things I can think of that could confuse people as to his character. I get the impression that he was good person. And I don't think going to a brothel is the worst thing in the world. I don't know how this latter fact could have escaped anyone's attention that is interested in Kafka. It is even in Kafka for Beginners illustrated by no less than Robert Crumb! There is more than an undercurrent of sexuality in his work; especially his novels.

Jezetha, the Venus in Furs picture episode is in "The Metamorphosis."

As for the posts pertaining to the artist vs human being, I recall a line by Evelyn Waugh that went "a person can sometimes be more sophisticated than experienced."
bendk is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Cyril Tourneur (01-02-2010), Jezetha (08-17-2008)
Old 08-17-2008   #6
G. S. Carnivals's Avatar
G. S. Carnivals
Our Temporary Supervisor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 26,614
Quotes: 397
Points: 272,439, Level: 100 Points: 272,439, Level: 100 Points: 272,439, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 100% Activity: 100% Activity: 100%
Re: Kafka's Porn

"His room, a regular human room, only a little on the small side, lay quiet between the four familiar walls. Over the table, on which an unpacked line of fabric samples was all spread out - Samsa was a traveling salesman - hung the picture which he had recently cut out of a glossy magazine and lodged in a pretty gilt frame. It showed a lady done up in a fur hat and a fur boa, sitting upright and raising up against the viewer a heavy fur muff in which her whole forearm had disappeared."
Franz Kafka - "The Metamorphosis"

"What does it mean to be alive except to court disaster and suffering at every moment?"

Tibet: Carnivals?
Ligotti: Ceremonies for initiating children into the cult of the sinister.
Tibet: Gas stations?
Ligotti: Nothing to say about gas stations as such, although I've always responded to the smell of gasoline as if it were a kind of perfume.
G. S. Carnivals is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Cyril Tourneur (08-17-2008), Jezetha (08-17-2008)
Old 08-17-2008   #7
trieffiewiles's Avatar
trieffiewiles
Chymist
Threadstarter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 420
Quotes: 0
Points: 37,467, Level: 100 Points: 37,467, Level: 100 Points: 37,467, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 33% Activity: 33% Activity: 33%
Re: Kafka's Porn

Wow, I didn't really think any real philosophical discussion would generate out of this post. I can certainly see both sides of the argument regarding whether or not the art can be separate from the individual, but in Kafka's case I think there had to be an at least considerable degree of overlapping, considering the complex social themes, the free will versus fate issues, the idea that family bonds are not unconditional nor are they inseparable, all of which held relevance in Kafka's life, especially at certain intervals.

Considering the moral stance taken by many of these scholars who made a minor issue in his life a hot debate today, people seem to forget that were it not for their righteous image, the scriptures of all of today's modern 'chastity venerating' religions- your christianity, islam, judaism, and hinduism- would be seen as the biggest catalogues of smut and sleaze in the world, as they are ripe and brimming with incest, sadomasochism, pedophilia, extreme puligamy, torture, probably necrophilia somewhere, especially so in the apocrypha of the first three, which are indeed inseparable despite their bickering. I am not sure about Buddhism, but now it sounds like I am trying to change the subject.

Simply put erotica is all over the place, and seeing as how human beings are the only known species (besides dolphins I guess) that #### compulsively while trying to avoid procreation, indeed many probably hoping against all odds to be sterile, how could it be any other way. In Kafka's era there were far fewer 'club' types bars. Let's face it, from the male standpoint, except for the morbidly yuppie, who might go to 'just hang out' , most go to clubs looking nice in hopes to tip the odds in favor of them meeting a potential partner, or perhaps a one-nighter, or maybe preferrably a gorgeous ####-buddy. If one reads literature from post-French Revolution to post-World War II it seems as though damn near everyone spent at least a night or two in a brothel.

I shouldn't even get involved in debates. Verbally, in person, I am very foul-mouthed and impatient, and usually just ignore debatable issues, for fear of temporarily going insane, or at least I hope 'temporarily', but in letters I can go on and on.

I am just glad everyone seems to be coming to Kafka's defense.
trieffiewiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kafka, porn


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Franz Kafka traumlied Ligotti Influences 25 02-17-2024 01:27 PM
Nightmare Magazine - Horror or Pedo-Porn? Fenris Technique Off Topic 35 06-21-2016 09:50 PM
Polish artist Piotr Dumala's Interpretations of Kafka & Dostoevsky mongoose Art 1 02-01-2016 07:14 PM
Michael Cisco on Kafka's Zurau Aphorisms nicolamasciandaro Michael Cisco 1 02-07-2014 12:54 AM
Kafka paeng Ligotti Influences 1 05-15-2010 08:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:10 PM.



Style Based on SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER as Published by Silver Scarab Press
Design and Artwork by Harry Morris
Emulated in Hell by Dr. Bantham
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS