The scourge of science fiction/fantasy/horror franchises and geek culture?

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

It is true that fans and enthusiasts of all kinds call themselves "geek", and many of them will be targeted by marketing people in dubious ways, just like people who want watches, sofas and cars. But I think this particular strain of geek I'm discussing here seems a lot more extreme (with the exception of sports and maybe even religion?) and maybe even more complicit in constructing that readymade geek identity I mentioned.

I don't know how I gave the impression that shared universes were a new thing. They've been around in comics roughly as soon as superheroes started, maybe earlier. Wasn't The Shadow pulps and radio shows written by lots of people?

There are of course creator owned comics like Hellboy, where additional creators come and go, including those Odd Jobs series of prose anthologies written by other writers. Mignola seems to stay in more control of Hellboy than a lot of other creators in a similar situation. There is obviously films, cartoons and merchandise of Hellboy.

Japan's otaku culture is a bit more extreme. I have no idea how prevalent it is but there's guys who think real women are inferior to cartoon characters. There was a guy who had a marriage ceremony with his favourite cartoon character. A videogame company even organized a night at a love hotel for gamers to spend a romantic night with their dating games in a rented room. I also remember when there was feminists criticizing portrayals of women in videogames, some geeks said something like "how dare you try to take our wives away from us".

I think Japanese franchises are launched more often but I don't know how long they are aiming to last. There's countless animated versions of comics, lots of small sculptures, pillows, but also something no other country seems to do so often: tie-in pop songs.

I think Manga creators generally get less screwed over than people who worked for Marvel and DC. I've heard conflicting things about how much rewards the successful ones reap; the more commercial series have editors with too much control.
Really successful things like Devil Man and Fist Of The North Star have more creators brought in for spinoffs but I think the original creators are still guiding it.

The few Hong Kong martial arts films that get imported these days mostly look pretty big budget. Unfortunately they seem to have switched humour for blockbuster prestige.

My gloomy talk about modern comic shop fare probably should have clarified that I think there's probably more good English language comics than ever now. There's far more genres, competent artists, styles and types of fans. It taken far too long to get here, but there's still some way to go. I'd probably be more grumpy about comics in previous decades.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

I used to call myself a horror fan but I recently realised I enjoy relatively little within it. So now I'd say I'm a dark fantasy, fantasy or Weird fan. It isn't the totality of what I am but it fairly accurately sums up a huge amount of my interests. I think the whole Vandermeer genre curation of weird fiction helped a lot of people better explore their interests. Genres should evolve and fragment, have different stages documented.

Been thinking about this. I think a lot of my previous interest in realistic and extremely unpleasant horror was curiosity about what it'd be like. Getting a sense of how I process these things and exploring unknown territory.

It's bizarre that it's turned out like this but sometimes I feel like saying to fans of this stuff "why can't you spend your time on something nicer?" Which is what ordinary folks say to horror fans in general.

In the writing community, has Weird supplanted Horror to some extent?
How much would it take for the horror section in book stores to be changed or absorbed into the science fiction and fantasy section?

I've started to think that maybe horror fiction has been limited to a surprising extent by the horror film business. Horror films have in large part been shaped by budget* limitations.
I've read a bunch of horror stories and been disappointed because they easily could have been films, I've heard a bunch of people complain that too many horror novels read like film pitches.
Do these writers really like that type of story or do they just really want film adaptation money? Are they just giving new readers something familiar?

*Not just budget, even the biggest films struggle to make their special effects work.

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[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Monetize away if you've got something good to sell. I'm sure all of us want a political system in which we can create and share as much as we want.

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

I think people should resist doing adaptations or using pre-existing characters unless they feel they really couldn't express a specific set of ideas properly with a new creation.

Been trying to think of times when using pre-existing characters was possibly a very good idea.

Fist Of The North Star has always fascinated me despite its many flaws (I could never get through the original comic or animated series) but I think the comic on its own would probably not be as good as what they done with the early animated versions. The sounds and motion added a Hell of a lot, I think.

I think that the first two Marvel Vs Capcom games was one of the best things to happen to the Marvel characters. It was crazy fun unburdened by any real attempt to continue their stories and it taken the physical action side further than anything else would likely be able to.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Obviously there are loads of great adaptations and continuations but I think most ideas could be turned into a new thing.

[Murony_Pyre]

Thank you for posting that, WSIB. It was a thought-provoking article.

[Mr.Plores]

Ugh. Met this dude at school that was wearing a lovecraft T-shirt. Since I was new and I needed to meet new people I walked towards him, started chatting. After a few beers I asked him about HP.Lovecraft. Turns out he only had read The Call of Cthuluh and hadn't even heard of any other stories...

I just walked away once he said he didn't even like to read.

[Fenris Technique]

This thread has carries a subtle hipster-ish vibe, no?

"I was a geek back when geeks were cool, before they became all corporate and stuff".

I grew up in the 80's playing AD&D, watching Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, Voltron, and playing 8-bit Nintendo. A lot of other folks had similar experiences. As my generation embraces middle age it's no surprise that several large corporations are catering to our sense of nostalgia and trying to mimic the things our generation treasured during childhood. I don't find that their shameless marketing taints the good experiences of my past, nor do I think it prevents those with similar interests from having good experiences with whatever niche 'geek' interest they choose to pursue today.

All the marketing hype in the world can't turn The Phantom Menace into a good movie, or make Magic: The Gathering less addictive. Quality is still quality, junk is still junk, and I don't see capitalism or corporations changing any of that.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

I think it does taint things. You don't have to be a snob to get fatigue from overexposure or bristle at something being used in a really crass context. Enough negative associations can really damage things. Music particularly suffers from too much play or being used in certain contexts.
It doesn't help that geek humour is mostly shockingly bad.

Yes, quality can appear anywhere but such a focus on moneymaking tends to discourage quality in general.

I don't think this is about age. When I was born these trends had been going on a long time. As I detailed earlier, I fell for it big time but I still love some of the stuff that was probably instigated with huckstery cynicism.

Capitalism surely encourages Star Wars to appear in all sorts of annoying places. I've never had much affection for it but I do feel bad for fans who would rather it was just a good thing from the past that they weren't still bombarded by.

As I say earlier, I'm a Ditko fan and it's grim seeing discarded chocolate wrappers or socks on the pavement with Spiderman on them.

I think this stuff also damages the perception of fantasy. It's like it doesn't really matter if you take sensational colorful characters and exploit the hell out of them. You might get Oliver Twist in an advert but you don't get Humbert Humbert or Orlando plush dolls. I guess the Little Thinker series comes close but it isn't that common.

The Unemployed Philosophers Guild, Give the thoughtful gift because the unexamined gift is not worth giving.

Some individual examples are not necessarily that bad but it's more about the sheer amount of this crap. It's not fun acting like the police about this stuff but I think objection is necessary.

I was quite charmed that someone had once made a Mark Eitzel doll but I sensed some real affection in that rather than pure novelty.