The Case of Charles Baxter Ward; or, yet another anti-Lovecraft.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

I think it seems like some creative people have benefited from saying and doing offensive things in recent times. At least it seems that way to me when I look at the music and comics news; sometimes tv and film too. I think some people, like Ariel Pink perhaps (whose music I like) do this in a cynical calculated way which is not admirable.
So this controversy might benefit Lovecraft more than it damages his reputation. People are crazy for artists with major flaws, it gets journalists writing.

But some people would probably have a career suicide for doing things that other people somehow get away with.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by lepidoppleganger

lovecraft cannot be singled out for what was the common mindset of the time. his letters were never intended for publication.

But the counter argument often is (one that I agree with) that Lovecraft, like many great artists, was not completely of his time. He was both ahead and behind his time in various different ways. That's part of what makes his prejudices so disappointing. I get the feeling that if he lived longer he probably would have renounced some of his bigger prejudices, but I'm sure he always would have struggled to come to terms with so many things if he lived 100 years of relatively good health.

I don't think it makes things a whole lot easier to take because he said some of the worst things in private. But I think there is some difference.
You tend to show your most positive side in your work, even if it is unflattering/warts and all you still show an intelligence about it.
In private or even on message boards we say things we might be less willing to stand by.

I'm quite tired of this stuff too. But as I said earlier, new people will always be joining this conversation. As long as he is popular, we'll still be talking about this. But hopefully with more intelligence and mixed in with talk of other good writers who need a popularity boost.

[xylokopos]

Quote Originally Posted by Hell-Ghost

That ideal plaque is the dumbest thing that I have ever had the utter displeasure of allowing my eyes to absorb. Could one imagine a plaque devoted to Agatha Christie stating this: Agatha Christie Crime and Mystery writer Author of Ten Little Niggers

Come on, man, this opens up vistas of hilarious possibilities. Here, let me try:

Nikos Kazantzakis
Wrote a lot of stuff.
Once, he shook Mussolini's hand

Socrates
Served in the infantry, battle of Potidaea
Grew fat in later life

Caravaggio
Fugitive from the law
Urinated on a poodle

[miguel1984]

Stephen King
Writer
Also hated Kubrick's The Shining

Michael Jackson
Singer and dancer
Also molested children

[Druidic]

The Literary Cops will always hound Lovecraft. Pygmies after Gulliver.
As someone once said, Lovecraft is the Bad Boy on the block, the kid our parents and teachers warned us against, the kid that we knew wasn't bad but really cool. "Don't hang around him! He's a bad influence!"
When I was in High School teachers and friends of the family used to say to me, "Why do you hang around with that crowd? They're juvenile delinquents."
They never asked the obvious question: Why did those kids hang out with me?
Like attracts like; and sometimes the bad boys weren't bad, just healthy non-conformists who didn't follow all the rules. And that's why the Literary Police will always declare Lovecraft Public Enemy No. One.
He didn't follow the rules, at least not the stupid ones. Most damning, he didn't flatter the self-importance of human beings. He told the truth as he saw it and never sold out. And, by God, he was cool. And still is.

[Druidic]

Baxter is B-A-A-A-CK...Read Joshi's blog for the gory details. The man is annoying and a clown. One can legitimately debate Lovecraft's literary worth or his racism but...misogyny? Nothing in the man's life or fiction supports such a charge. Baxter's disregard of facts and fairness makes him a clown in my eyes. No critic is obliged to be nice; but any critic worth his or her salt is obligated to attempt to be fair. Lovecraft himself was the fairest of critics.
Apparently there is a literary quota of females in fiction that Lovecraft didn't meet. Apparently the pulp writers in the Weird Menace pulps did; that fiction always had enough women to rape, torture or murder. Lovecraft's stories didn't degrade women and now he's labeled a misogynist. I'm no prophet but I suspect, now that Ligotti's work is being looked upon seriously, his fiction will eventually be facing the same trumped-up charge.

S. T. Joshi - Blog

Kudos to Joshi for his spirited defense of Lovecraft. But Baxter is a hopeless case and I question the guy's essential integrity.
I think Lovecraft's works discomfort these people to a surprising degree. Even atheistic intellectuals ("We cool! We liberated!") often have parochial views on a majority of subjects and HPL wasn't always kind to the illusions that many live by.

[Frater_Tsalal]

All I have to say is, I hope I never get into an argument about anything with S.T. Joshi!

[miguel1984]

Well, just to see what S.T. Joshi would say, I took the liberty to send him an e-mail with a link to the "essay" Daniel José Older wrote for The Guardian: Move over HP Lovecraft, fantasy writers of colour are coming through | Books | The Guardian.

If I recall correctly, he never said anything about it... Yet.

[Evans]

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic

. I'm no prophet but I suspect, now that Ligotti's work is being looked upon seriously, his fiction will eventually be facing the same trumped-up charge..

I often think of this actuelly. Somewhere, and do correct me if I'm wrong, does not Ligotti say that he would like all of humanity to perish in a flash of ecstasy? Now call me cynical but I can't imagine future readers being anywhere near as disturbed by this as they would be if he were to wish e.g. that every African American perish in a flash of ecstasy despite the former entailing the later. This of course says nothing about the rightness or wrongness of Ligotti's statement but it does showcase a strange inconsistency on the part of the modern psyche.

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic

I think Lovecraft's works discomfort these people to a surprising degree. Even atheistic intellectuals ("We cool! We liberated!") often have parochial views on a majority of subjects and HPL wasn't always kind to the illusions that many live by.

Certainly the idea of the indifference of the cosmos stretching to certain bits of it is not meet with much enthusiasm.

[Coa]

Because they are unable to accept certain points and conclusions of HPL work, they try to downplay it, to explain and understand it trough racism - level which they can comprehend.
Racism and other social triviality's are still part of the game - they can mumble a lot there and of course they can accuse someone and be relevant and stuff. HPL work's are game-breaker, discussion on that level will never be achieved.