Madness in Literature

[bendk]

I found this in The Book of Lists Horror. It was under the heading: Eight Memorable Quotes From Horror Authors. (I recall reading this before, but it doesn't give its source.)

"Let's say it once and for all: Poe and Lovecraft - not to mention a Bruno Schulz or a Franz Kafka - were what the world at large would consider extremely disturbed individuals. And most people who are that disturbed are not able to create works of fiction. These and other names I could mention are people who are just on the cusp of total psychological derangement. Sometimes they cross over and fall into the province of 'outside aritists.' That's where the future development of horror fiction lies - in the next person who is almost too emotionally and psychologically damaged to live in the world but not too damaged to produce fiction."

- Thomas Ligotti

[Acutely decayed]

Quote Originally Posted by bendk

That's where the future development of horror fiction lies - in the next person who is almost too emotionally and psychologically damaged to live in the world but not too damaged to produce fiction. - Thomas Ligotti

Had read this in an interview and often think of it.

How many great artists are trapped speaking a “Private Language” and is it an inevitability that the true weird is incommunicable?

The kneejerk reaction is that it is a tragedy that a rich inner world was selfishly not shared, but this in itself may be a selfish reaction.

If the inner experience lessened the pain of existence for the artist – then it has done something – even if forever unknown.

I get the impression some of Ligottis stories are, conversely, like dark pearls – the transcendent product of the creators unchosen suffering (although post-CATHR that could be said of all artists).

I have thought about outsider art and how much of it may be unrecognizable quite a lot – perhaps part of the solution is something along the lines of Proust and his ideas about genius in Art – if my memory/paraphrasing of his ideas is right (I have no academic literacy background) he believed great art could shape viewpoints ready for its eventual acceptance – a sort of gradual evolution of persuasive “art brut” into a more conventional position – a preparing of the soil. So we have the experience to recognize something new and great when it comes along and while it can be preserved.

So perhaps more intricate and specialised viewpoints could eventually be perceived by readers/viewers where initially was only a “private language” – I guess this would mean the private language somehow taught others to read itself – or made them struggle to do so (sorry this post seemed to make sense when I started it!)

I like to think this could happen with the weird – problem is the impetus still has to be there for the artist to leave some kind of record (and maybe one with a persuasive component *)– for it to be able to have an effect – even if it is just the way their life was lived or is hinted at – if Darger or another had left no record of a complex inner life – even an initially incomprehensible one - it would be difficult to interpret them as an artist – barring some science-fictional retrospective dream-harvester or some such. So the Private Languages of the uncommunicative may be brilliant and charged with darkness but sadly inaccessible…all we can do is encourage these individuals to create and who knows if such encouragement would not have the opposite effect on those of a perverse nature….

Part of the reasons I still ponder this is my thoughts are not clear on the matter – It is this area and the times art impinges on the decisions of others I have trouble coming to any non-contingent understanding of.- If a great work of art requires input from others, even if this is completely voluntary and freely given, but this limits the volunteers own unique artistic vision – is this justified (or less morally, would it create more great art)? – either way something of great beauty or value could be lost

….maybe it is all not worth worrying about – orchids evolved without greenhouses anyway…

Sorry for the abstractions, it probably is all babble, I am currently reading Camus – The Rebel, along with Bakkers – White Luck Warrior – and I blame that! (too much thinking about thinking I think - when I think about it)

* this also ties in with Hofstadters ideas of part of the message being that it is recognizable as a message, maybe?

I think that most writers strive to communicate some aspect of their own experience that seems to make sense for them within the limits of particular moments of creative expression.

It's never the be-all-and-end-all of the totality of themselves as individuals.

If they were straightforward types, perhaps one grand work of fiction might delineate their entire perspective.

Mark S.

[Joe Pulver]

Quote Originally Posted by mark_samuels

I think that most writers strive to communicate some aspect of their own experience that seems to make sense for them within the limits of particular moments of creative expression. It's never the be-all-and-end-all of the totality of themselves as individuals. If they were straightforward types, perhaps one grand work of fiction might delineate their entire perspective. Mark S.

I bleed on the page as I can. Try, yes! !! But as Mark said, "It's never the be-all-and-end-all of the totality of themselves as individuals." There's the truth of it.

[Nemonymous]

Quote Originally Posted by Nemonymous

Finnegans Wake - James Joyce

"...curious dreamers, curious dramas..."

The photo I took today to mark the end of my 'monumental' real time review of 'Finnegans Wake' HERE

[bendk]

Operators and Things by Barbara O'Brien. This is a memoir of a six month bout with schizophrenia. It was written in the late 1950s. It was brought to my attention at the Neglected Books Page. (link below) I liked it. It was not as far out as Schreber's memoir. I remember liking one of the early chapters particularly well. The ideas struck me as a mix of Ligotti's MWINYD and Clive Barker's Hellraiser movies. If that sounds too good to be true, it probably is - and it was only one chapter. The ending is also important and enlightening. I did a little research on the book before reading it, and I recall that it made a bit of a splash at the time in both literary circles and in the psychiatric community.

http://neglectedbooks.com/?p=1076


Some fiction:

The Ordeal of Gilbert Pinfold by Evelyn Waugh
Spider by Patrick McGrath.
The Grotesque by Patrick McGrath
The Underground Man by Mick Jackson
The Butcher Boy by Patrick McCabe

McCabe's novel was short-listed for The Booker Prize. It was adapted to film by Neil Jordan. I liked the novel, but didn't care for the movie.

The Underground Man was also short-listed for the Booker. (That was my thing back then). I had mixed feelings about this one, so this is not a recommendation.

I liked both of McGrath's novels.

Waugh used to be one of my go-to guys for laughs. This didn't disappoint.

	MWINYD My Work Is Not Yet Done

[Nicole Cushing]

Quote Originally Posted by Bleak&Icy

A brilliant account of madness, by a Persian novelist heavily influenced by Poe:

Love this thread and am appreciative for the recommendation of THE BLIND OWL. Ordered it from Amazon just a few days ago and finished it this morning. Breath-taking work!

[bendk]

Quote Originally Posted by Nicole Cushing

Quote Originally Posted by Bleak&Icy A brilliant account of madness, by a Persian novelist heavily influenced by Poe: Love this thread and am appreciative for the recommendation of THE BLIND OWL. Ordered it from Amazon just a few days ago and finished it this morning. Breath-taking work!

I agree, Nicole, I thought The Blind Owl was a fascinating novella. Hedayat is just one of the many great authors that Ligotti has introduced to me over the years. If you ever have a mind to leave a your impressions of the book, I would definitely be interested in reading them. And that goes for the rest of you TLOers!

http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.ph...hlight=hedayat

[teguififthzeal]

"The Man of Jasmine" by Unica Zurn is one of the most convincing chronicles of madness I've ever read, and it isn't fictional. She was married to Hans Bellmer, definitely a Ligottian artist, and later jumped out a window.

[ToALonelyPeace]

I'd recommend the short story "The Scarlet Flower" by Vsevolod Garshin though it's not a straightforward story of madness but of Evil.

Strange enough, I seek out 'cruel literature' but not 'mad literature'. For the latter, I do think it's all in the reader's head. Even if the text is straight from the mouth of madness (pardon the pun), a reader might put emphasis on one word the author randomly chose, or recognize a sign that is not there all on his own. Thus the text can be as real as it is on the author's end and fake as fabricated FB post on the reader's side.

The exceptions are people like Paulo Coelho who write insipid platitudes striking straight at the heart.