A Strangers Thought

[constable]

Hi

I haven’t posted here before. I have just read ‘The Conspiracy Against The Human Race’. This work surprised me, as I haven’t before read (and never expected to read) literature that discusses at length the experience of being miserable and struggling with existence. As is discussed it is not a popular or encouraged philosophy. I personally have found that any mention of it prompts questions about ones sanity, rationality and intelligence.
I have never before found an in depth exploration of all of the relevant philosophy, literature, questions and struggles faced by a person who dislikes life.
I have encountered many of the philosophies myself and asked the same questions as I have contemplated existence and struggled with depression. As I have frantically searched for meaning and an ending to the suffering but suppose I didn’t know other people had trodden the same path, asked the same questions, read the same literature. So it was interesting to read this, Thanks.

One other person I have encountered who I thought could be relevant is
J. Krishnamurti. UG Krishnamurti denounced him, as he did everyone. Like UG he recognised that we live a hellish existence, fuelled and tortured by desire and tormented by loneliness, isolation and anxiety. He said that this was the reality of life and that ability to see this demonstrated a sensitivity that the people who enjoyed life lacked. Where he differs is that he offers a kind of hope. Similar to Buddhism but whereas Buddhists give a method of escape for you to carry out, he says that there is no method and nothing that you can physically do. He says that there is no escape in the positive, active sense but that there might be one in the act of passive negation. In the action of just being aware of the prison of our consciousness. Not doing anything to it, attempting to change and interfering but just watching it operate. Uncovering our hidden desires and learning about the way our thinking works. He said that examination and scrutiny would reveal the falseness of our thinking. Although he said that we shouldn’t want to rid of it no matter how difficult and repulsive our lives are but that we should examine it unbiased. And that when we find it impossible to be aware of ourselves without wanting to change that we should then turn our focus to that. To our inability to look at anything objectively. To the fact that whatever we see we want to change. For example when we become aware that we are sad, we recognise and name it as sadness, instantly tainting it as something negative and so comes the desire to want to get rid of it.

[tonalized]

I agree that I was taken aback when I read TCATHR. I had never read anything resembling the life-denying ideas of philosophical pessimism. I've also discovered that I can't discuss this type of philosophy with anyone. The only response I get is a look that says, "Are you feeling alright?" I have to commend Mr. Ligotti for his blatant honesty when discussing the topic and his courage to actually put forward such ideas knowing ahead of time how most people would react. I'm not familiar with J. Krishnamurti, but his ideas seem interesting. Thanks for posting your thoughts. I may have to give J. Krishnamurti a closer look. CHG

	TCATHR The Conspiracy Against the Human Race

[Gray House]

I was already on the road to believing that it would be better if there was nothing at all when I read TCATHR and it was of great interest to read philosophy that lead to that conclusion that was so much more well thought out than my own personal philosophy. I now feel better able to defend my position, though I have rarely voiced such opinions anywhere but here, where these opinions are generally respected. They are not ideas that most people want to hear. The fact that there are so many people necessarily means that any new person will most likely have life affirming views.

	TCATHR The Conspiracy Against the Human Race

[Gray House]

A couple more thoughts: A common life affirming sentiment when life is not going so well is "It could be worse." I think my life is relatively not too unpleasant, but is MEANINGLESS. Being aware that there are countless people suffering more than I am, rather than causing me to feel lucky and happy because of that, causes me to feel that life, being MEANINGLESS, should not be.

[DoktorH]

I like things being meaningless. if there was a meaning, that would mean i could get it wrong, i could fail, I could bungle things up and screw up some grand scheme of things. Since it's all meaningless, and there is no grand scheme of things, whatever i decide to do is automatically the right thing to do, because it is the thing I want to do. I cannot violate a grand design that does not exist.

[Gray House]

Quote Originally Posted by DoktorH

I like things being meaningless. if there was a meaning, that would mean i could get it wrong, i could fail, I could bungle things up and screw up some grand scheme of things. Since it's all meaningless, and there is no grand scheme of things, whatever i decide to do is automatically the right thing to do, because it is the thing I want to do. I cannot violate a grand design that does not exist.

I agree with that. That's how I live my daily life.

[tonalized]

To be honest, even after reading everything I could find by Ligotti, I was unable to coalesce his overall philosophy until I read TCATHR. Now when I reread the stories, I get a much clearer picture. I've reread Conspiracy about 4 times now, and I agree with a great deal of what he has to say, but not his overall premise. I'm not saying necessarily that 'being alive is alright', but I would say that it'll have to do considering the alternative. Again, if I were never born, I surely wouldn't miss a life, and yes the everyday life of an overly conscious being can be excruciating, but overall, even though it amounts to nothing in the end, to me its worth it. And it's only temporary. Our time will run out before we even realize it. And it will probably be a relief.

	TCATHR The Conspiracy Against the Human Race

[tonalized]

Quote Originally Posted by Gray House

A couple more thoughts: A common life affirming sentiment when life is not going so well is "It could be worse." I think my life is relatively not too unpleasant, but is MEANINGLESS. Being aware that there are countless people suffering more than I am, rather than causing me to feel lucky and happy because of that, causes me to feel that life, being MEANINGLESS, should not be.

You make a good point, and I'll concur that if I were suffering to the degree that the people you mentioned are, I would wish to have never been born. As you said, my life is not terrible unpleasant relatively speaking, and how are lives turn out are very much a role of the dice, but considering the possibilities, I got a pretty good role. Not that I owe it to anyone to fulfill anything, but realizing the meaninglessness of existence and everything in it is kind of liberating to me. 'Losing all hope was freedom' (Fight Club).

Do I mope around much of the time thinking, "Why do I have to expend so much energy & time on such nonsense?' Yes! Absolutely. But I do find my little pleasures and those get me by. Is it all we can ask to just get by. I think it might be.

CHG

[DoktorH]

Quote Originally Posted by tonalized

Do I mope around much of the time thinking, "Why do I have to expend so much energy & time on such nonsense?' Yes! Absolutely. But I do find my little pleasures and those get me by. Is it all we can ask to just get by. I think it might be.

it's all nonsense. Anything That a person can choose to expend any time and energy on is nonsense. sometimes it is entertaining nonsense, and I am pleased. other times it is irritating nonsense, and all i can do is let it happen and keep waiting for the clown.

I mope about the irritating nonsense sometimes. I wish it would stop, and yearn for more pleasant forms of nonsense, The nicer nonsenses do come back through whatever mechanism keeps the nonsense flowing. It's not so much getting on with things, to use the phrase from TCATHR, as is it is letting things get on with themselves. the nonsense is fluid. there are currents of fast-moving nonsense, pools of stagnant nonsense, puppet strings of nonsense pulling other nonsense about (nonsensically, of course). Whenever i hit a patch of bothersome nonsense, if i just wait, some other nonsense eventually comes along and takes its place.

	TCATHR The Conspiracy Against the Human Race

[G. S. Carnivals]

Quote Originally Posted by DoktorH

Quote Originally Posted by tonalized Do I mope around much of the time thinking, "Why do I have to expend so much energy & time on such nonsense?' Yes! Absolutely. But I do find my little pleasures and those get me by. Is it all we can ask to just get by. I think it might be. it's all nonsense. Anything That a person can choose to expend any time and energy on is nonsense. sometimes it is entertaining nonsense, and I am pleased. other times it is irritating nonsense, and all i can do is let it happen and keep waiting for the clown. I mope about the irritating nonsense sometimes. I wish it would stop, and yearn for more pleasant forms of nonsense, The nicer nonsenses do come back through whatever mechanism keeps the nonsense flowing. It's not so much getting on with things, to use the phrase from TCATHR, as is it is letting things get on with themselves. the nonsense is fluid. there are currents of fast-moving nonsense, pools of stagnant nonsense, puppet strings of nonsense pulling other nonsense about (nonsensically, of course). Whenever i hit a patch of bothersome nonsense, if i just wait, some other nonsense eventually comes along and takes its place.

And who said armchair philosophy is dead?