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Old 02-18-2017   #51
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Re: The Supernatural

Sadly I haven't yet been able to try DMT (if the cosmos wishes to provide some at this point it would be much appreciated) but I have consumed a fair amount of LSD and Psilocybin, sometimes in near heroic doses. Whilst - providing certain precautions are taken - it's something I'd recommend*, I can't say it has produced anything akin to a religious experience. For me a successful psychedelic experience will inspire a burst of metaphysical/ontological musings in a non-linear way, but that's more about uninhibiting my mind than granting it a special visionary perspective on external reality.

*Actually for me it's far preferable to alcohol. Psychedelics tend to induce an attitude of universal benevolence and rambling existential questioning whilst alcohol just makes you angry and prone to say things that will later be regretted.

These things are too hard to get though.
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Old 02-18-2017   #52
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis View Post
LSD is easy to activate in your body provided you have it, but DMT is fairly difficult. Most people don't do it right and you really need someone who knows what they're doing to show you how to do it. Even stoner/hippie-looking types often think they've done it when they haven’t done it correctly. If you mess it up, not much happens. If you do it correctly…a lot happens. Probably too much.
It comes on straight away DMT, doesn't it?
A friend of mine said as soon as he'd smoked some there was 'vector-based demon' right up in his face, forcing his head back and yelling "DON'T RESIST IT! DON'T RESIST IT!"
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Old 02-18-2017   #53
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by vapidleopard View Post
It comes on straight away DMT, doesn't it?
A friend of mine said as soon as he'd smoked some there was 'vector-based demon' right up in his face, forcing his head back and yelling "DON'T RESIST IT! DON'T RESIST IT!"
Yup…it starts working before you’ve finished taking all the hits you need to take. You could be trying to get to three or four hits to really leave Earth, and after one hit your friend could have spider eyes all over his face, and there could be shadow people running around in the background. You have to ignore this kind of thing and keep taking hits. Then you start forgetting what you’re doing. Same thing, have to keep at it to break through. This is psychologically upsetting and difficult, which is why most people don’t succeed in breaking through. “Ignore the demons” is really the best advice.

There are a lot of misconceptions about it, probably resulting from people not doing it correctly, or enough. The depiction in the much-vaunted film Enter the Void, for example, is one I’d consider completely unrealistic - whereas various scenes from the recent Doctor Strange movie are actually fairly accurate. Enter the Void makes it look almost relaxing - which it manifestly is not. It really is closer to a completely absurd comic book jump cut apocalypse. If someone makes it sound vague or dreamy, they haven’t done it correctly. Successfully blasting is like instantly replacing a slow-moving BBC stage drama from the 1950s on a tiny fuzzy black and white television with about 100 YouTube windows open at the same time and all playing recent music videos on a giant high definition liquid plasma wallscreen.
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Old 02-18-2017   #54
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Re: The Supernatural

Thanks for bringing Psilocybin up. That is something else I am interested in.

I used to be a heavy alcohol consumer. I spent a little fortune a few years ago just getting wasted at bars. Then it dawned on my that I could have saved most of it by just investing a small fraction and be a stay-at-home drunk and save myself from lots of problems and public embarrassment. The state of drunkenness is interesting, but pathetic. I've gotten into a lot of troubles thanks to it, and after the joy of the first couple of hours I become depressed, even if life at the moment is doing fine. The only times alcohol has made a violent thug out of me were the occasions when I would be trying to hook up with a woman and then somebody else got in the way. Nasty stuff. I've spent a could of nights at the dungeon because of it.

I no longer get hangovers, though. No matter how much I drink.

But it's a waste of a good altered state of consciousness. Other than introspection and self criticism, I don't get anything out of it. No visions, no hints at what's behind the veil. Psychedelics have always interested me for both scientific and spiritual reasons. Alas, I haven't done any and I am too impatient for meditation or controlled out of body experiences. Maybe sometime further ahead.

Anyway, people die...
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I am simply an accident. Why take it all so seriously?
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Old 02-19-2017   #55
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Karnos View Post
Thanks for bringing Psilocybin up. That is something else I am interested in.

I used to be a heavy alcohol consumer. I spent a little fortune a few years ago just getting wasted at bars. Then it dawned on my that I could have saved most of it by just investing a small fraction and be a stay-at-home drunk and save myself from lots of problems and public embarrassment. The state of drunkenness is interesting, but pathetic. I've gotten into a lot of troubles thanks to it, and after the joy of the first couple of hours I become depressed, even if life at the moment is doing fine. The only times alcohol has made a violent thug out of me were the occasions when I would be trying to hook up with a woman and then somebody else got in the way. Nasty stuff. I've spent a could of nights at the dungeon because of it.

I no longer get hangovers, though. No matter how much I drink.

But it's a waste of a good altered state of consciousness. Other than introspection and self criticism, I don't get anything out of it. No visions, no hints at what's behind the veil. Psychedelics have always interested me for both scientific and spiritual reasons. Alas, I haven't done any and I am too impatient for meditation or controlled out of body experiences. Maybe sometime further ahead.
I believe I'm getting better at abstaining from the poison altogether. I don't want it anymore. The only thing worse than alcohol is romantic love. But I digress.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 02-26-2017   #56
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
For atheists like myself it just doesn't come up very often because it isn't interesting or unusual. Just like I don't announce to people that I'm heterosexual.
I felt like walking this back a bit. Maybe I/some people shouldn't be so judgemental of atheists who wear it loudly, because people tend to be proud of a part of their identity when other people insist it's unacceptable. Opressively religious societies might seem distant to a lot of us but it's still a reality to a lot of people.

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Old 02-28-2017   #57
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
For atheists like myself it just doesn't come up very often because it isn't interesting or unusual. Just like I don't announce to people that I'm heterosexual.
I felt like walking this back a bit. Maybe I/some people shouldn't be so judgemental of atheists who wear it loudly, because people tend to be proud of a part of their identity when other people insist it's unacceptable. Opressively religious societies might seem distant to a lot of us but it's still a reality to a lot of people.
I'd argue that right now, some of us are living in oppresively irreligious societies. Oppression is not distant to me, i know the boot end of it no less than people who've had an oppresive Catholic childhood, and it was no less a struggle for me to get out from under the atheist norm than it was a struggle for them with the theist norm.
Oppression can take the form of imposed 'freedom.'

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Old 02-28-2017   #58
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Re: The Supernatural

Is it something more than anti-Muslim judgement? Some sort of process that was made difficult that would be the same struggle for someone of a different religion?

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Old 02-28-2017   #59
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Is it something more than anti-Muslim judgement? Some sort of process that was made difficult that would be the same struggle for someone of a different religion?
Yes. To give but one example: One, inevitably, has day jobs, the requirements of some of which include courses in First-Aid ( quite helpful in itself, of course) or some very minor pedagogy courses. A lot of the conclusions presented therein, & therefore the preferred ways to act, stem from a biological determinism which has forced me now and again to state clearly my disagreement- which can be interpreted as disagreement w/ company policy & therefore refusal of work.
& it becomes increasingly difficult to dance around these things.

The fact that it has become a commonplace to see humanity as a bunch of Darwinistically determined nerve-endings and neurons easily removes the moral imperative behind Mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice. To live in a society which collectively renounces these values is nothing vague, nothing abstract. You look that lack in the face each day.

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Old 02-28-2017   #60
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Re: The Supernatural

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post


The fact that it has become a commonplace to see humanity as a bunch of Darwinistically determined nerve-endings and neurons easily removes the moral imperative behind Mercy, forgiveness, sacrifice.
Why do you think it removes these values? These can't be emphasized in every religion. Religious people of many times and places found inflicting brutal public punishments more seductive than mercy but I've often thought that those people perhaps aren't into religious values so much as the rules and conventions of the times. I suspect the truly religious have always been a minority and perhaps not much has been lost in terms of religious communities.

I define truly religious as people who contemplate their love for Jesus rather than just worrying about stepping outside the rules.

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