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Old 03-19-2017   #511
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Nemonymous View Post
I don't know what you think about Trump! But I decided to raise the topic here as I think he was preternaturally created from fiction literature, that is as Jethro Furber in Omensetter's Luck by William H. Gass in 1966.
My budding theories on this are growing exponentially here:

Omensetter William H. Gass | The Des Lewis Gestalt Real-Time Reviews

“However, between the time that I proposed this particular paper topic and now, something historically monumental happened which makes 'The Tunnel' vitally relevant: the election of Donald J. Trump as president of the United States (and the rise of the alt-right in general). That is to say, the overarching theme of The Tunnel —which Gass has described as “the fascism of the heart”— makes the book amazingly and unfortunately up-to-date. Perhaps an appropriate secondary title for my paper would be “A Text Suddenly of Our Time.””

From “Modernism’s Last Gasp and the Architecture of William H. Gass’s The Tunnel” by Ted Morrissey

My ongoing review of THE TUNNEL -
The Tunnel William H. Gass | GESTALT REAL-TIME REVIEWS: Dreamcatcher of Fiction Books

MY WEBSITE: www.nemonymous.com
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Old 03-19-2017   #512
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Re: Trump

@ Knygathin

I don't think Ligotti's (and those who sympathesize with him) assessment of the human condition can be reduced to some sort of infantile projection, though it would be therapeutic if we could do such a thing. Indeed, I would argue that most self-reflective individuals will reach the same conclusion as Ligotti in the midst of their final moments. Some of us have simply arrived there perhaps prematurely.

One could argue that to adopt such a worldview is a sign of some form of "retarded" development, in the same way that adults tell adolescents to get a "real" job - one that they hate - before they can claim to be self-sufficient adults themselves.

But who's the real fool here?

In any case, too many people confuse voluntary extinction via complete abstinence with some kind of petty destructive nihilism.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 03-19-2017   #513
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Re: Trump

Knygathin- if these Kalergi and Chisholm guys really said people should purposely mix instead of choosing who they like, they are ridiculous. Why do they think a "multinational flock" would have no real quality? Or is that what you think?
You say there's also a great pressure from such people to stop reproducing altogether. This must a different faction?

But none of this sounds very convincing and I don't think you see any clearer than the people you're describing. I think you're characterizing complex things as if there's a big sinister control over it all.

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Old 03-19-2017   #514
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Firstly, I'm not calling for anyone to go away or to stop discussing these things.

I'm just aware how we could create the wrong impression if there's not much sign of objection to what I detailed above. Doesn't matter if most of us are liberals if we look like we're not too bothered by ethno-nationalism, talk of intrinsic and insurmountable differences between ethnic groups and genocide. If we look like we don't care it could deter people from posting here.
If people shy away from discussing ideas they strongly disagree with then it shows they're not mature enough for Philosophy; it says nothing about us and quite a lot about them.

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
And yes, those things are obviously much worse than people wanting their family lines to end without forcing it on anyone else.
Now I agree with this (though I expect my meta-ethics are different from yours) but as a statement it's as much subject to philosophical debate as any other.

EDIT: @Robert Adam Gilmour,

The former remarks may sound rather hostile which was not my intention. If people want substantive objection to the Alt.Right/Ethno-Nationalism then I suggest someone starting a thread discussing those ideas (simple objection: persons are free moral agents and thus have praise or blame assigned based on their intentions and intended actions - it's a category mistake to assume genetics or racial heritage, neither of which are free actions, are of moral import).
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Old 03-19-2017   #515
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Re: Trump

I'm encouraging people not to shy away but I understand that some people find it too exhausting, hopeless and are sometimes wary of attracting trolls. I'm not calling Mithras and Knygathin trolls but it's not unusual for anyone deemed an sjw to get more negative attention than they bargained for. This is probably a low risk forum for that but not everyone knows that.

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Old 03-19-2017   #516
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Re: Trump

For me this has nothing to do with any left vs right divide. Mithras/With Strength I Burn threatens people, lies chronically and has spammed my PM box so badly with that I am too anxious to even check it any more. He has actively made this forum an unfun place for me, and I'm tired of being called an SJW for pointing this harassment out because this is everything to do with behaviour and nothing to do with ideology.

What people are willing to defend vs what they take issue with on here is outright bizarre at times. This has nothing to do with political correctness. He has thoroughly spoiled my TLO experience and correspondence, and people are only defending him because he shares their views. It's frankly unacceptable.

Quote Originally Posted by Knygathijn
It is NOT about "saving our pensions and jobs". It is about racially mixing up white europeans, and wiping us out. THAT is the goal. And it is tricked upon us by deceptive means and lies. It is a fact, and not my opinion.
Hmm.
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Old 03-19-2017   #517
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
99% of TLO's members are Liberals. I'd bet on that. Any idiot who believes TLO is a hotbed of reactionary thought isn't going to be swayed by facts. Some people have an axe to grind, God knows why.

Guys, maybe it's time to take a deep breath, step back and stop provoking Mithras. The past is past, he's apologized and I for one believe he's sincere.

Let it go, guys. Life is short, regrets are long.
It's a relatively well-known fact that most educated individuals tend to be liberal, though I feel the exact opposite was true in the past. I suppose that's something for sociology to explore.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 03-19-2017   #518
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Knygathin- if these Kalergi and Chisholm guys really said people should purposely mix instead of choosing who they like, they are ridiculous. Why do they think a "multinational flock" would have no real quality? Or is that what you think?
You say there's also a great pressure from such people to stop reproducing altogether. This must a different faction?

But none of this sounds very convincing and I don't think you see any clearer than the people you're describing. I think you're characterizing complex things as if there's a big sinister control over it all.
No disrespect to Knygathin, but I agree. The world itself is "governed" by idiotic forces. There isn't enough reason or intellectual prowess in all of existence to enact that kind of elaborate conspiracy. "Global capitalists" do what they do because they're motivated by base desires - nothing more, nothing less.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 03-19-2017   #519
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
people are only defending him because he shares their views. It's frankly unacceptable.
I agree with most of what you said but there's a lot of uncertainty about what each of us has seen and exactly what and how much they're agreeing on.
But again, my whole argument: it needs to be considered what could look like tacit approval or indifference.

I can't remember if it was Mithras but when someone talked about Elon Musk drinking blood in rituals I thought it was probably an odd joke. The stuff about isis members being used in experiments to create virtual reality utopias could also come across as a joke.

If I was a newer or less frequent member I wouldn't be sure what to think.

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Old 03-19-2017   #520
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Knygathin View Post

They are mentally and emotionally conditioned by Political Correctness to react that way. All the way down from childhood, in school and later education, and all through media brainwashing. It is not something which they think through, but something that is ingrained in their emotions, and that they react to automatically, very much instinctive behavior to retain social acceptance from the consensus majority of the community they are part of.

And it is really not about destruction of other races, because that is a very extreme point of view rarely expressed. No, it is simply a question focused on migration. They are unable to bear listening to the opinion of even slightly limiting migration to Europa from Africa and the Middle East. They find this thought even more despicable and horrible than their fantasies about destroying the human race. Again, that is because they are conditioned to respond that way.

And the fantasies about destruction of the human race is just role-playing, to chock your buddies, to appear "extreme", and show that you are a real "fan-boy" of Ligotti. It is a childish projection of personal depression, a "revenge" upon the whole of the human race.

I believe what happened in Persia is similar to what is happening now in Europe. They first let in the arab muslims by motivation of "work force", and today the muslims have taken over and control former Persia. The argument goes similarly today in Europe, that "we MUST have the migration, or Europe will not survive", "to save the pensions and the jobs", and "to replace the aging population". Which is a load of lies. And at the same time the propaganda of 'white guilt' is shoved upon white people, urging them to use birth preventives, encourage free sex and abortions, breakdown of family values, and stop breeding all together, and that whites are "racists" if interbreeding with their own kind.

It is NOT about "saving our pensions and jobs". It is about racially mixing up white europeans, and wiping us out. THAT is the goal. And it is tricked upon us by deceptive means and lies. It is a fact, and not my opinion.

Some have even admitted that it will be a very painfull transition, but that it still "must be" made. We see the chaos spreading over Europe (and it will get MUCH worse), social tension and insecurity, segregated no-go-zones where people of the same foreign race control everything (where even ambulance and fire department are attacked if they go in), robberies, violent beatings, sexual mass assaults, rapes, a majority of women no longer dare to go out alone at night, collapse of welfare systems and health care, national debt increasing.
It is all part of the plan, "the necessary price to pay for a good cause", for "tolerance", and "humanitarian muliculturalism" (What a joke! SO FALSE, so untrue and hostile to the laws of Nature!), to finally terminate the stable racially homogenous and economically self-sufficient independent nations.

Capitalism and race are mixed in this hell-brew pot. And the capitalists they fool you all, communists and liberals alike. Multiculturalism is the modern expression of communism. So the majority on this forum are actually communists. And above you all, stand the winners, the only winners in this imposed madness, the globalist capitalists. And they laugh at your ignorance.

Study Kalergi (his book Practical Idealism), the founder of early EU integration, and role model of today's EU top elite. He clearly stated that the peoples of Europe should interbreed with Asians and colored races, thus creating a multinational flock with no quality and easily controlled by the ruling elite.

G. Brock Chisholm, former director of the World Health Organization (OMS), said: "What people in all places have to do is to limit birthrates and promote mixed marriages (between different races), this aims to create a single race in a world which will be directed by a central authority."
I'm not very certain what you're going on about, but it seems to me that you are saying that there is some sort "communist" conspiracy by all of Europe's governments to replace white people with scary non-white immigrants where there will be systematic discrimination against whites and then cause everything bad to increase by multitudes. You talk about how the arrival of more immigrants would ruin the prosperity of "racially homogenous" nations and send them into chaos. Quite frankly, this seems to me like absolute xenophobia and (very) thinly veiled racism.

You make an interesting point though, I seldom think of the motivation behind letting muslim immigrants into your country for economic reasons. It is my understanding that the main driving force for opening the borders to refugees SHOULD BE due to ethical responsibility, or, that it wouldn't be ethical to refuse immigrants fleeing from nightmarish conflicts in the Middle East - innocents fleeing from terrorism, torture, slavery and actual genocide. In my opinion its ideally the right thing to do, though unfortunately it is never that easy and there are many other variables a nation must consider.

Last edited by nihilsum; 03-19-2017 at 04:57 PM.. Reason: clarity
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