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Old 04-20-2017   #811
Speaking Mute
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
King's political leanings are discernible from his work, but this is also true of the works of Arthur Machen, M. R. James, Robert Aickman, H. P. Lovecraft, Thomas Ligotti, Franz Kafka, Hanns Heinz Ewers and others. I'm struggling to think of any canonical weird writer whose political leanings weren't clear from their work.

I don't see why it is a problem with King and not these other writers.
Lovecraft's general conservatism still shocks me - and I'm not simply talking about his racism, but his overall hostility towards technology and modernity. Prior to TCAHR and talking to Ligotti here, I can't say I would have guessed his political views aside from pessimistic leanings - even now, I don't know where he stands on issues unrelated to antinatalism. I haven't read enough of James, Ewers, or Machen to comment on their work, but socialism doesn't come to my mind when reading Kafka. Aickman strikes me as opportunistic satirist - from what I've read he pokes fun at everyone from Tories to communists.
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Old 04-20-2017   #812
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Quote Originally Posted by durandal View Post
nihilists and antinatalists who make the majority of weird fiction scene
Really? I'd be surprised if they were anything other than a mix of regular atheists, agnostics and slightly religious folks.
I'd be interested in seeing an actual survey. Anecdotally, I've never detected any general political or religious tendencies people that read horror, detective, or fantasy fiction.
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Old 04-20-2017   #813
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Re: Trump

So a man walks into a bar, and sits down. He starts a conversation with an old guy next to him. The old guy has obviously had a few. He says to the man:
"You see that dock out there? Built it myself, hand crafted each piece, and it's the best dock in town! But do they call me "McGregor the dock builder"? No! And you see that bridge over there? I built that, took me two months, through rain, sleet and scoarching weather, but do they call me "McGregor the bridge builder"? No! And you see that pier over there, I built that, best pier in the county! But do they call me "McGregor the pier builder"? No!"
The old guy looks around, and makes sure that nobody is listening, and leans to the man, and he says:
"but you #### one sheep..."

Lucian pigeon-holed the letter solemnly in the receptacle lettered 'Barbarians.' ~ The Hill of Dreams by Arthur Machen
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Old 04-20-2017   #814
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Hidden X View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Hidden X View Post
Quote Originally Posted by njhorror View Post
King has injected politics into so many of his books that I stopped reading him years ago. He can't help it. He's a kneejerk liberal spouting the "isn't it obvious?!" politically correct position, and what's worse - it's nothing new, just the same old saw. Whether from the left or the right, I don't have much patience for politics when I read for entertainment.
And this is of course complete and utter BS. Something like The Stand is wholly built around Old Testament Abrahamic conception of God and morality, to a point where it might offend some of his readers.
Saying how King is only able to write from one position, in particular "liberal politically correct one", is far, far removed from truth.
Whereas I personally can't fathom how someone can be both Christian (or Muslim or Jewish) and socially liberal, it's not terribly uncommon. I also never got the sense that The Stand was supposed to be anything other than fiction. Moreover, for a mainstream trade paperback that came out in the late 70's, just having a non-stereotypical lesbian protagonist put the novel slightly ahead on the social curve.

King isn't exactly Cornel West, but he makes it clear in both his fiction and interviews that he's on the left.
One needn't be christian in order to use christian conception of universe as a basis for their own fictional universe. And that's what he did, and he did it pretty convincingly. People will, for example, sympathize with all those outcasts in Las Vegas one way or another, and they are indeed not written to be completely unsympathetic, but in the universe with that basis they have to be on the "other" side and to be defeated and purged in the end.
In a way, intentionally or not, it showed just how terrifying and cruel christian god would really be.
Errr not that I'm necessary endorsing Christianity but isn't the Christian thing precisely not to do that (the whole notion of forgiveness of one's enemies and God's allowing the possibility of redemption for sinners instead of destroying them wholesale a la the Old Testament)? If anything thoughtful Christians should be off-put by the vindictive 'comeuppance mongering' in his fiction.

Interestingly the novel does feature a plot device which appeals to many Leftists and US Rightists of the Libertarian type, that is military industrial government being sinister and destructive.
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Old 04-20-2017   #815
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
To the right of Marx. To the left of Trump supporters.

With the sheer idiocy of misplaced priorities in my own country now mirroring the lunacy going on in America, I have given up any hope I once had for the future of politics. Goodbye NHS. Hello one party state.
Labour seems to be even more dysfunctional than the Democratic Party at this time in history. I disagree with Jeremy Corbyn on a few issues (his views on Trident are foolish, in my opinion), and I get why he may come across as a bit of an extremist to the voting public, but the Blairites in the party have behaved so shamefully towards him. They don't seem to want to actually engage with any genuinely left positions, preferring to retreat into the background and paint the current leadership as a carnival sideshow.

I wouldn't be surprised if they'd rather the Tories smash them in June than have Corbyn as PM. They want Labour cleansed by fire, methinks.
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Old 04-21-2017   #816
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Re: Trump

Tony Blair destroyed the Labour party. Our opposition will never recover. One party state. The difference between Corbyn and Sanders is that Sanders had a legit chance of victory.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
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Old 04-21-2017   #817
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Re: Trump

@James
I don't think that Aickman was at all liberal in real life, tho. Like, at all. If anything, I can imagine him being amused by the fact that folks who read him or are inspired by him nowadays tend to be liberal. Back in the day, his fiction was even championed by the likes of Russell Kirk, well known far right ideologue.

@Speaking Mute
Interestingly enough, Lovecraft's super-advanced, far-superior-to-humans civilizations like YIth and Elder Things were very much communist societies, even described as such.
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Old 04-21-2017   #818
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Shadenuat View Post
@James
I don't think that Aickman was at all liberal in real life, tho. Like, at all. If anything, I can imagine him being amused by the fact that folks who read him or are inspired by him nowadays tend to be liberal. Back in the day, his fiction was even championed by the likes of Russell Kirk, well known far right ideologue.
By no stretch of the imagination could Kirk be called 'far right', he was a Traditionalist Burkean Conservative.

For goodness sake Left-wing people I know you disagree with these peoples' policies and (sometimes) dislike them as individuals but this constant misrepresentation just makes you sound either foolish or dishonest.

Quote Originally Posted by Shadenuat View Post
Interestingly enough, Lovecraft's super-advanced, far-superior-to-humans civilizations like YIth and Elder Things were very much communist societies, even described as such.
With plenty of enforced euthanasia and creation of slave races? Communism in that sense is an economic policy, nothing else.
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Old 04-21-2017   #819
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Shadenuat View Post
@James
I don't think that Aickman was at all liberal in real life, tho. Like, at all.
Huh? I never said this. Where did this come from?

Of course I don't think Aickman was left-wing. He's my favourite damn writer. I have read his autobiographies. He DESPISED socialism, feminism, etc. He was an unashamed social class elitist to what would today be deemed a shock jock level of behaviour. What I said was that his political views were evident from his work and often prominent, which they are. His stories teem with, often witty, aphorisms that display his political beliefs.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
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Old 04-21-2017   #820
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Re: Trump

Well put, Evans. Calling Kirk "far right" is pretty hysterical. Some political erudition is always appreciated.
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