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Old 04-23-2017   #831
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Evans View Post
By no stretch of the imagination could Kirk be called 'far right', he was a Traditionalist Burkean Conservative.
50(000) Shades of Conservatism. I'm not the sort of guy who likes to contemplate inner workings of evil, so I apologize if I misplaced the gentleman in question.
I'll tell you this about Kirk, I enjoyed his constantly reprinted "There's a Long, Long Trail A-Winding" for it is atmospheric and beautifully written story. But I am not at all inclined to read anything else of his, and I have precisely zero interest in studying his particular system of assholery.

@Nemonymous

Talk about stating the obvious.
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Old 04-23-2017   #832
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Re: Trump

I get the feeling that there are many people who have difficulty getting past the conventional stages of moral development:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawren...lopment#Stages

This might not be so tiresome if they weren't so self-righteous about it, but I suppose that's exactly the way self-righteousness works. In order to defend one's own conventionality of thinking, it's imperative not to reach stages five and six.

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
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Old 04-23-2017   #833
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Re: Trump

Ye olde projection.
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Old 04-23-2017   #834
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Re: Trump

Is exactly what I'm talking about, yes.

But since this thread is about politics rather than philosophy, I suppose I shouldn't raise my hopes concerning any progress being made.

http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.c...e-debated.html

Quote
Why is philosophy -- the genuine article -- not something that can be debated?

Philosophy is inquiry. It is inquiry by those who don't know (and know that they don't know) with the sincere intention of increasing their insight and understanding. Philosophy is motivated by the love of truth, not the love of verbal battle or the need to defeat an opponent or shore up and promote preconceived opinions about which one has no real doubt. When real philosophy is done with others it takes the form of dialog, not debate. It is conversation between friends, not opponents, who are friends of the truth before they are friends of each other. Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas.

There is nothing adversarial in a genuine philosophical conversation.
But, then again, I suppose I didn't have much hope of the above kind of thing in the first place, so perhaps I'm at fault.

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
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Old 04-23-2017   #835
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by qcrisp View Post
Is exactly what I'm talking about, yes.

But since this thread is about politics rather than philosophy, I suppose I shouldn't raise my hopes concerning any progress being made.

http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.c...e-debated.html

Quote
Why is philosophy -- the genuine article -- not something that can be debated?

Philosophy is inquiry. It is inquiry by those who don't know (and know that they don't know) with the sincere intention of increasing their insight and understanding. Philosophy is motivated by the love of truth, not the love of verbal battle or the need to defeat an opponent or shore up and promote preconceived opinions about which one has no real doubt. When real philosophy is done with others it takes the form of dialog, not debate. It is conversation between friends, not opponents, who are friends of the truth before they are friends of each other. Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas.

There is nothing adversarial in a genuine philosophical conversation.
But, then again, I suppose I didn't have much hope of the above kind of thing in the first place, so perhaps I'm at fault.
Run away, qcrisp! Run away ...

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 04-23-2017   #836
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Re: Trump

Okay, okay. I'll just make some juxtapositions that I hope will ultimately be useful rather than provocative.

Quote
50(000) Shades of Conservatism. I'm not the sort of guy who likes to contemplate inner workings of evil, so I apologize if I misplaced the gentleman in question.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Quote
Philosophy is inquiry. It is inquiry by those who don't know (and know that they don't know) with the sincere intention of increasing their insight and understanding. Philosophy is motivated by the love of truth, not the love of verbal battle or the need to defeat an opponent or shore up and promote preconceived opinions about which one has no real doubt.


Basic stuff, really.

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
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Old 04-23-2017   #837
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Re: Trump

Odd to find such orthodox (royal?) conservatism on TLO.

If one finds the current administration in the United States to be appealing, good, or in any way beneficial or in any way anything other than an embarrassing disaster, one should adjust one's contacts or glasses and look again. Never before have we been such a laughing stock for the world. Never before have we had such madness. Trump makes Nixon look g r e a t.

Donald Trump's father was a stuffy little accountant who wasn't anything big. He would take advantage of the mid level housing around Coney Island. People from NYC hate both him and his father for their vicious behavior as businessman and slumlords. Now he is our international slumlord.

How this can be appealing in any sense (except in a destructive way) is lost on me. Elections aren't football games; it isn't about who wins or loses, it is about the good of the country.

And Trump is not a politician. He has none of the skills or emotional maturity or anything; he does not reach his predecessor's big toe.
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Old 04-23-2017   #838
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by luxfugio View Post
Odd to find such orthodox (royal?) conservatism on TLO.
See, this is part of the problem. If someone doesn't embrace a Far Left agenda, then that person is automatically labeled a "conservative," which is a very slippery label to begin with. If one wants to utilize political terms such as "liberal" or "conservative" in order to discuss political philosophy, then that's perfectly fine; it's practically an evil necessity. But just because someone disagrees with certain ideas, that doesn't mean he or she adopts some kind of wholesale conservatism. It certainly doesn't mean that person is a Trump apologist. It's usually an indication that he or she has the capacity to think before expressing their own opinion.

One of the points I've tried to make is that "progress" is a very slow process. I don't think many people realize how spoiled we are in the developed world as a whole. The extreme discontent one sees amongst many on the Far Left is caused by an optimistic view of humanity and its place in the universe. I don't care if one is a Christian or not, but it's quite clear to me that we are here to suffer. Does that mean we ought to acquiesce to the status quo? No. However, it does mean we should consider every option before declaring every "conservative" to be "evil," and that they're stupid for not admitting that everything is "free."

I now understand why Borges refrained from politics. It seems a waste of one's precious time.

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Old 04-23-2017   #839
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Re: Trump

Far left? I'm not talking about a far left thing here, just some measure of sanity, though Trump's presence in the White House has occasionally made me crave some huge leftist movement that takes no ####.

This is the degradation of electoral democracy and with him getting North Korea all excited we might really be screwed.
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Old 04-23-2017   #840
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by luxfugio View Post
Far left? I'm not talking about a far left thing here, just some measure of sanity, though Trump's presence in the White House has occasionally made me crave some huge leftist movement that takes no ####.

This is the degradation of electoral democracy and with him getting North Korea all excited we might really be screwed.
Describe to me exactly what this "leftist movement" would do on a practical level to cure America's problems.

My own view is that most Americans are not content with a sandwich or hot dog - they want a steak dinner. This includes CEOs, government bureaucrats, and (gasp!) the average American. We're all so very, very spoiled, and very few of us have any genuine desire to become disciplined. It's the Roman Empire all over again. The rest of the world has been laughing at us long before the advent of Trump. They've been laughing at us because we're essentially pigs drowning in our own slop.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"

Last edited by Mr. Veech; 04-23-2017 at 11:51 PM..
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