THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK
Go Back   THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK > Discussion & Interpretation > Ligotti Influences > H. P. Lovecraft
Home Forums Content Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Contagion Members Media Diversion Info Register
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes Translate
Old 09-19-2014   #251
qcrisp's Avatar
qcrisp
Grimscribe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,936
Quotes: 0
Points: 60,819, Level: 100 Points: 60,819, Level: 100 Points: 60,819, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 29% Activity: 29% Activity: 29%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Negative_capability Negative_capability

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
qcrisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014   #252
symbolique
Chymist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 410
Quotes: 0
Points: 14,437, Level: 82 Points: 14,437, Level: 82 Points: 14,437, Level: 82
Level up: 82% Level up: 82% Level up: 82%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
So on a note of exhaustion, gratitude, bewilderment and an aching leg I once again sign off from what must be destined to be an interminable debate.

I think of August derleth. I loved that guy. But I often wondered if Lovecraft would have approved the publication of letters that were meant to be private communications. It’s a tribute to Derleth’s honesty and integrity that he didn’t sugarcoat the long tedious racist passages…but I suspect Lovecraft would never have approved the publications.

Derleth defended Lovecraft to the end. In one of the Arkham chapbooks he set about to debunk myths that had grown about the Providence writer. He denied Lovecraft was a racist and made his case for it. Most, of course, would disgree after reading the vitriolic racial passages in some letters. For me, actions alone define a man. And because of that I find the rants essentially Lovecraft just venting, expressing his anger at his own less than ideal life circumstances…something we all do with misplaced anger at some time and in some fashion.

We look and discuss the Letters as if they were a calculated literary work. They aren't. More like looking through a private journal without permission, access made available only through the journalist's death.


Well, it's been fun! Thanks all!
Well said. 80 years from now the analysis of TL writing, TLO posts, casual texts/sms, facebook blurbs, drunk twitters, everything-else-NSA-collected will make for more target practise posthumously.
symbolique is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Druidic (09-19-2014)
Old 09-20-2014   #253
brendanconnell's Avatar
brendanconnell
Mystic
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 244
Quotes: 0
Points: 8,459, Level: 64 Points: 8,459, Level: 64 Points: 8,459, Level: 64
Level up: 3% Level up: 3% Level up: 3%
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Well, yes. God knows if my private emails to a few fellows (you know who you are) were ever to become public, I too would be a total pariah. But I haven't said much I don't actually believe. I doubt Lovey did either. Of course we must show compassion for those who live in the relative ignorance of seeing a universe devoid of honeysuckle. Some sort of random quotes delved out of the melting angst of my brain (poetry for those rubbing knees raw for the Providence Pro): Plutarch: "Zeno, assailer of all things, whose tongue, like a double edged weapon, argued on either side with an irresistible fury."... Aristotle: "A tyrant's aim is his pleasure."... Fo-jih Ta-hui of Ching-shan: "Kindred gather in a happy family circle; a tiger watches the water mill turn."
brendanconnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014)
Old 09-20-2014   #254
Robin Davies
Chymist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 368
Quotes: 0
Points: 13,892, Level: 81 Points: 13,892, Level: 81 Points: 13,892, Level: 81
Level up: 27% Level up: 27% Level up: 27%
Activity: 29% Activity: 29% Activity: 29%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

On a side-note, I hope this thread won't put people off Stewart Lee. After watching the DVD of his recent stage show Carpet Remnant World four times (and you have to watch the whole show to really appreciate its structure) I reckon he's the best stand-up comic I've ever seen.
Robin Davies is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014)
Old 09-20-2014   #255
qcrisp's Avatar
qcrisp
Grimscribe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,936
Quotes: 0
Points: 60,819, Level: 100 Points: 60,819, Level: 100 Points: 60,819, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 29% Activity: 29% Activity: 29%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

In terms of short clips, I think this is one of my favourites from Stewart Lee:


I'm not sure this is the time and place for my analysis of the role of stand-up comedy within political discourse, etc., but the above clip makes me laugh, which is more than can be said for many... YouTube comedy clips.

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
qcrisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014)
Old 09-21-2014   #256
Robin Davies
Chymist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 368
Quotes: 0
Points: 13,892, Level: 81 Points: 13,892, Level: 81 Points: 13,892, Level: 81
Level up: 27% Level up: 27% Level up: 27%
Activity: 29% Activity: 29% Activity: 29%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Quote Originally Posted by qcrisp View Post
In terms of short clips, I think this is one of my favourites from Stewart Lee:
That's from Carpet Remnant World but, again, I would urge anyone to check out the whole show to see how that bit works in the overall structure. The complete performance is a delight.
Robin Davies is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014), qcrisp (09-21-2014)
Old 09-21-2014   #257
mark_samuels's Avatar
mark_samuels
Grimscribe
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,401
Quotes: 0
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

I've met Stewart Lee personally on a couple of occasions. He's a huge Arthur Machen fan.

He's a really pleasant and engaging person, perfectly in tune with the prevailing cultural vibe. And very amusing.

But he doesn't come anywhere close to the immortal Q in terms of my ongoing respect.

So there.

Mark S.

"You have no idea how much nastier I'd be if I were not a Catholic. Without supernatural aid I would hardly be a human being." Evelyn Waugh
mark_samuels is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014), teguififthzeal (09-21-2014)
Old 09-21-2014   #258
mark_samuels's Avatar
mark_samuels
Grimscribe
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,401
Quotes: 0
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Sorry, all you members who will notice, the last message was deleted not because there's anything particularly interesting about it, but because I put it on the wrong thread.

Roll over to favourite songs if you're interested.

Mark S.

"You have no idea how much nastier I'd be if I were not a Catholic. Without supernatural aid I would hardly be a human being." Evelyn Waugh
mark_samuels is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014)
Old 10-20-2014   #259
Forgotten Prisoner
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 136
Quotes: 0
Points: 7,954, Level: 62 Points: 7,954, Level: 62 Points: 7,954, Level: 62
Level up: 35% Level up: 35% Level up: 35%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

This is what S.T. Joshi should have asked Daniel José Older.


The World Fantasy Award statue of HPL will remain as it is.
Forgotten Prisoner is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Druidic (10-22-2014), Fenris Technique (11-15-2014)
Old 10-22-2014   #260
Druidic's Avatar
Druidic
Grimscribe
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,564
Quotes: 0
Points: 69,171, Level: 100 Points: 69,171, Level: 100 Points: 69,171, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 71% Activity: 71% Activity: 71%
Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Rereading Conrad's Heart of Darkness recently, I couldn't help but think of Lovecraft and all the fuss over the 'racism' of a man born nearly 125 years ago. Heart of Darkness has been accused, with great vehemence and, I believe, great ignorance of being a 'racist' work. (I recall reading in Wiki that the words "racist" and "racism" didn't even exist in Conrad's lifetime.) How can a work that so vividly depicts the horrors and brutality of an inhuman and institutionalized exploitation be regarded as racist?

My point is simple: if Conrad is still subject to such charges how can we possibly expect Lovecraft to be immune to them?

For some, attacking the works of Conrad, Mark Twain, Lovecraft or other prominent older writers, is just a convenient and cynical way of pursuing their political agendas.
Druidic is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
bendk (10-22-2014), mark_samuels (10-22-2014), symbolique (10-22-2014)
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
award, butler, fantasy, lovecraft, octavia, world

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Grimscribe won the Italian SF/Fantasy award Andrea Bonazzi Other News 2 05-23-2016 02:40 AM
ST Joshi to boycott World Fantasy Award Malone Other News 1 11-13-2015 07:04 AM
Born to Fear: Interviews with Thomas Ligotti nominated for a World Fantasy Award! Dr. Locrian Ligotti News 8 07-12-2015 12:35 PM
Octavia Butler nightflight General Discussion 2 01-26-2012 02:45 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:43 PM.



Style Based on SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER as Published by Silver Scarab Press
Design and Artwork by Harry Morris
Emulated in Hell by Dr. Bantham
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS