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Old 09-06-2014   #61
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

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So, since anyone who dislikes anti-Semites is now "liberal", that would make all Jews liberal.--Brendanconnell
Brendan, I’d answer your question if only I understood it. The nutty push for conformity and The Perfecting of Human Nature is coming today from the Left. Not all liberals endorse it but the movement as a whole is a movement from the Left and I just don’t like folks passing laws to tell me what books I should read, what foods I can buy, what vehicles I should drive. I long for the old days—the 60’s—when your enemy wore a black hat. Now the guys in the white hats are scaring me far more.
Btw, I have no idea of your politics and I’m not interested. My reference was not aimed at an individual.
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Old 09-06-2014   #62
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Who is passing a law saying what books you can read?
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Old 09-06-2014   #63
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

The racism issue seems to be one of compartmentalisation. I can appreciate Lovecraft's many fine qualities, while disagreeing with his racism. Others seem to think the expression of racist views renders that person wholly despicable. Brendan, you've called Lovecraft a "prick". On the race issue I suspect most of us would agree with that, but do you think that negates every other aspect of his personality and his work?
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Old 09-06-2014   #64
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Robin, no I don't think it does. The writing is not the person. But I think it is better to simply admit that than to blame the "liberals". I like the writing of the Goncourts, Huysmans, and many others who are racists. Again though, the subject here is if Lovecraft's bust should be the world fantasy award. Considering we have Jews and black people are being given or nominated for the award, it does seem odd that people should not respect that. There is a difference between admiring a work of art or writing and setting the person up as a cultural icon. Again, I own I think most of Huysmans books. But I also would not want a giant ugly bust of him sitting on my shelves.
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Old 09-06-2014   #65
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

I should also say that Huysmans, though I like his books, surely was a prick as well. Same with Bloy--though the latter was more a bastard than a prick.
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Old 09-06-2014   #66
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

Xenophobia in Primates:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-08-1...utionary-roots

Didn't Sturgeon write a story about xenophobia titled The Green Monkey?


Discussion of Lovecraft's racism is a diversion, a nod to Political Correctness and just a bogus issue. Some people are obsessed with making amends for the past. Sorry. You can't make amends to dead people.

Unless, of course, I missed out on the latest scientific development...

And now I'm taking my leave. Thanks all for your challenging interactions, real debate is something that's been missing for too long. I just wish it had been on a more relevant issue.

Last edited by Druidic; 09-06-2014 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 09-06-2014   #67
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-08-1...utionary-roots
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Old 09-06-2014   #68
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

It's not the first attempt of the establishment to smear Lovecraft.

I have learned some time ago that if you look for honesty and integrity you have to look elsewhere, because ideology comes first for these people and the truth is often ugly and not politically correct, so most of the time they shun it altogether. The Heretics of the modern western world are not Atheists anymore, they are those who refuse to chime in with progressivism and it's absurd reality-detached dogmas and ideals. The only consolation is : reality doesn't care, and they learn it the hard way every year a little more, until the left singularity will implode unto itself.

Hope is a lack of information.
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Old 09-06-2014   #69
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

"the establishment" ---what exactly are you referring to? Up until now any sort of "establishment" has accepted Lovecraft. I have been talking about how the award should be changed for a several years now and certainly it has never been something I have heard any sort of "establishment" backing. I mean, it isn't like Obama is out there giving a press conference on the matter.
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Old 09-06-2014   #70
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).

It's easy : if you are a white man (living or dead) who made racial slurs you don't belong to the accepted progressive establishment, no matter what other qualities or opinions you may have. If you are a black woman you automatically belong to the progressive establishment, no matter what writerly qualities you mave have (or if any at all.)

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