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Old 02-11-2016   #11
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Fear of an all-knowing god does not make you a better person, IMO, it only makes you obedient. That is why I lost interest in religion. I am disinterested in any master/slave relationship which, when you boil it down, it the real doctrine of Christianity/Judaism/Islam.

I think we can clearly grasp the concept of "god" because it was humanity that created him. "God" can morph as gods have done over the expanse of human history. There is nothing unique or remarkable about this.

I had to laugh when Christopher Hitchens said that "man has gone to believing in many gods to just one god. This is progress. I think we're getting closer to the true number all the time."

A "good" person is not motivated to do good through fear of punishment, but rather, I believe, through empathy and compassion. These are human traits, no gods necessary.

"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind." - H. P. Lovecraft
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Old 02-11-2016   #12
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Quote Originally Posted by Fenris Technique View Post
Similarly, perhaps humans are not intellectually equipped to tackle concepts like God, or the subtle workings of time, infinity, the cosmos, etc.
I believe this to be true. The mind is not even designed to understand itself, let alone the rest of the universe.

Humanity jumps off skyscraper. Halfway down, it yells triumphantly, "So far, so good!"
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Old 02-12-2016   #13
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Quote Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
...master/slave relationship which, when you boil it down, it the real doctrine of Christianity/Judaism/Islam.
It never ceases to amaze me when those who do not apparently share my belief or faith tell me what its doctrines are. To my mind, it is a bit like storming into a room and proclaiming to the two people there, whose acquintance you haven't yet made and one of whom you believe isn't actually there, 'Why, how can you allow yourself to be treated like that by him,' meanwhile pointing at the one whom you do not believe to be there.

Or, is it useful or fair to describe a relationship that you do not actually believe exists, then use that very description as a reason for your disbelief?

More generally & to the point, i would say that most religions do seem to allow for an interpretation of their precepts that distinguishes between earthly morality ( i.e. in the social sphere, the man-made world), and God's judgement ( Absolute Good & Absolute Evil which it is not our business to make proclamations about because, as has been pointed out earlier on this thread, there are things our minds are too limited too grasp?).

In this respect- as pertaining to "...we can clearly grasp the concept of 'god' because it was humanity that created him..." - i must admit i had always imagined that what humanity had created was simply the word god, and this, to denote exactly that which we had no grasp of at all.

There is certainly a species of believer whose reduction of God to a dimension of morality makes you wonder why they don't call themselves atheist.

"What can a thing do with a thing, when it is a thing?"
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Old 02-12-2016   #14
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Two people can look at the same thing and see something different. I speak to what I see as do you. Speaking my belief is not attempting to dictate your faith to you. But I cannot blame you for feeling defensive or offended. We seem to spend most of our lives in one of those two states.

"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind." - H. P. Lovecraft
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Old 02-13-2016   #15
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Quote Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Two people can look at the same thing and see something different. I speak to what I see as do you. Speaking my belief is not attempting to dictate your faith to you. But I cannot blame you for feeling defensive or offended. We seem to spend most of our lives in one of those two states.
I am neither offended, nor feeling defensive. I am, as i wrote, merely amazed, and curious to understand how you can postulate a relationship (slave/master) between two entities when you believe that one of these two entities does not exist.

Two people may look at a door and may see it as a couch, or a table, but the third, who sees in it a possible entrance, acts in accordance with the object's function, wouldn't you say?

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Old 02-13-2016   #16
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that a relationship between two entities in which one party mandatorily worships the other (and will be punished severely with eternal torture if they don't) whilst believing that they belong to the other entity utterly and shall obey them unceasingly is a master/slave relationship. One entity has all the power there; the other has none.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
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Old 02-13-2016   #17
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Quote Originally Posted by James Sucellus View Post
I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that a relationship between two entities in which one party mandatorily worships the other (and will be punished severely with eternal torture if they don't) whilst believing that they belong to the other entity utterly and shall obey them unceasingly is a master/slave relationship. One entity has all the power there; the other has none.
Yes, but it becomes unreasonable the moment you claim that one of these entities does not exist.

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Old 02-13-2016   #18
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

I am open to the idea of there being a Higher Power of some sort, but I am as certain as I can reasonably be about anything, after weighing up the derivative nature of the mythologies, where they were cribbed from and the dubious, devoid of spirituality, imperialist means by which they have been messily and arbitrarily spread throughout the Earth, that Christianity or any of the stifling mainstream monotheist structures of thought are bull#### and no closer to finding any spiritual truth than somebody who outright denies there even is any spiritual truth. All I see in these structures these days is conservative pageantry and vanilla conformism.

As a proponent of a revolution of thought, it's hard for me to see anything sacred about them. Who would want a 'lord', anyway?

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
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Old 02-13-2016   #19
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
121023]...master/slave relationship which, when you boil it down, it the real doctrine of Christianity/Judaism/Islam.
I'm not one considered to be with faith either but I would guess that those that are with it would say that the relationship is more of a father/son relationship (or mother daughter, if you want).

As an outsider, I would also say that the parent is very authoritarian and apart from some very strict religious families, this isn't the modern version of a parent/child relationship. Perhaps, this model worked when the family patriarch had that power over their family but the idea that anyone should have that much power is decreasing in the western world.

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Old 02-13-2016   #20
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Re: Believing in God makes you a better person

I sometimes think people cannot believe in a God unless they have created It in their own image. I want a God that is as illogical as it is incredible--that's why I'm still LDS. A God that made sense intellectually wou'd be so boring.

"We work in the dark -- we do what we can -- we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art."
--Henry James (1843-1916)
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