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Old 5 Days Ago   #581
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nihilsum
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
Both parties are incompetent and/or corrupt. The Republican Establishment fought Trump just as hard as the Dems.

You simply don't quite GET it. One doesn't have to like Trump to realize he was a better choice than the woman who turned Libya into a honeymoon resort for terrorists. Her foreign policy was a simple one: "Gaddafi is a secularist, he's against the fundamentalists,he's no threat to us, he's just the glue that holds this country together, let's kill him." Her laugh at the death of the Strongman sounded like an idiot chortling. Compared to Clinton, Bush and Obama were utterly brilliant at foreign policy.
The GOP back-peddled on Trump and attacked him at first because they knew he was a very questionable candidate. But as soon as he won over most of their base even people in the party he insulted like Ted Cruz supported him.

The outcome in Libya was unfortunate. It is a hard choice, leave a war criminal dictator in power or help rebels while risking the chance of making things worse. No easy option and I do not know enough about the politics of the country to say anymore definitively. But is important to note that Trump is on record for outright saying Gaddafi should be assassinated around the time it happened, and then doing a complete 180 on the subject once things south he used it as political ammunition. So I question how one would assume that Trump would be a better strategist when he has constantly contradicts himself and has literally no experience in matters such as this.

Furthermore, Trump's openly anti-Islamic attitude will only fan the flames of anti-American sentiment in the middle East, and it's hard to see such an Islamophobe taking careful precautions when dealing with those countries. This is not not even mentioning his ridiculous stances on social issues and all of the promises that he is not keeping.

Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute View Post
The Clinton v Trump vote tallies always neglect that far fewer people turned out than in this election than 2012 - almost half sitting out the election now. Then the third party vote. The Democrats ran a horrible campaign, but a huge swath of the public collectively just said "no".

What you describe also isn't how the electoral college works. Trump didn't win through luck or electors, he won because he captured the majority of the popular vote in the majority of states.
Yeah, and its not a secret that the trend is Democratic voter turnout has became less than Republican voter turnout.

About the electoral college: that's exactly what I was saying. The democrats didn't push hard enough to sway electoral votes in the states that gave Trump his victory. They expected more of the Republicans to turn against him, to basically collapse into themselves. It was folly to assume that would happen. I did not mean to imply he won solely by luck, but rather it was one of those rare occurences when a lesser popular vote coincided with winning the presidency.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #582
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Re: Trump

@ Speaking Mute

Justin is the forum's court jester, albeit a slightly cynical one. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It can be refreshing at times to have someone lighten things up a bit, something I myself am incapable of doing.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 5 Days Ago   #583
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Re: Trump

I've read some of Mithras/With Strength I Burn deleted posts, and there's plenty of internal contradictions within them. He proclaims to be a pessimist and yet is also optimistic enough to be a transhumanist (eh...he also wants to do human experiment on ISIS). He denounces Clinton as a war-hawk, yet wouldn't mind going to the Middle East and finishes Islam for good.

I don't think these internal contradictions are bad, on the contrary they are quite invigorating. Possessed by the feelings of being misunderstood, denigrated, alone against the world, every advice and outcry feed his fire. I applaud Robert and Justin for their sincere effort to relieve his tension, but it's not going to work.

Once we commit ourselves to a passion, noble or sordid, it is of no importance, we are certain to proceed from torment to torment. The very aptitude to endure them shows that we are predestined to suffer. We love only because unconsciously we have renounced happiness. The Brahmanic adage is irrefutable: 'Each time you create a new tie, you drive another pain, like a nail, into your heart.'
(Emil Cioran, The Fall Into Time)
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Old 5 Days Ago   #584
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis View Post
One poster on here (Nirvana in Karma), still a teenager, comes from an economically devastated part of Virginia. He was recently arrested for protesting Trump at his university, and I believe is still dealing with some of the fallout from that.
Wow, I did not know that. Nirvana in Karma is a cool guy in my book.

Your fall should be like the fall of mountains. But I was before mountains. I was in the beginning, and shall be forever. The first and the last. The world come full circle. I am not the wheel. I am the hand that turns the wheel. I am Time, the Destroyer. I was the wind and the stars before this. Before planets. Before heaven and hell. And when all is done, I will be wind again, to blow this world as dust back into endless space. To me the coming and going of Man is as nothing.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #585
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by ToALonelyPeace View Post
I've read some of Mithras/With Strength I Burn deleted posts, and there's plenty of internal contradictions within them. He proclaims to be a pessimist and yet is also optimistic enough to be a transhumanist (eh...he also wants to do human experiment on ISIS). He denounces Clinton as a war-hawk, yet wouldn't mind going to the Middle East and finishes Islam for good.

I don't think these internal contradictions are bad, on the contrary they are quite invigorating. Possessed by the feelings of being misunderstood, denigrated, alone against the world, every advice and outcry feed his fire. I applaud Robert and Justin for their sincere effort to relieve his tension, but it's not going to work.
Every human being is a contradiction. More often than not, intellectuals tend to have idiosyncratic beliefs. I view Mithras' hatred of Islam in the same way I view Nietzsche's hatred of Christianity. Granted, I'm not in possession of all the facts; unfortunately for them, that's something moderators have to deal with. However, speaking for myself, I can say that Mithras has treated me with respect.

If I'm having a pleasant conversation with someone intelligent, a conversation in which something controversial arises, I don't dare attempt to try and refute them, nor do I provoke them. What I do is simply veer the conversation in a different direction. Changing the opinion of someone intelligent is a formidable task. I simply assume they have deep seated reasons for why they believe the way they do, reasons which are usually accompanied by a great deal of pain.

I'm willing to bet everyone here has some belief which the average person would consider repulsive. Some of us are just more shy than others.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 5 Days Ago   #586
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Re: Trump

Even if I can't successfully refute someone's argument, I feel a responsibility to at least note my strong objection to some ideas. Like putting up a traffic sign letting people know there's a dangerous path that shouldn't be taken.
There can be consequences for letting things slide, even if you have no hope of convincing the other person. And it means something to show that you care about James and Ibrahim being insulted the way they were. It's a good way to maintain a community.

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Old 5 Days Ago   #587
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by nihilsum View Post
About the electoral college: that's exactly what I was saying. The democrats didn't push hard enough to sway electoral votes in the states that gave Trump his victory.
Ok - you meant electoral votes rather than electors. I inferred that you meant the late attempts to flip how the electors - as in delegates - voted.

In hindsight, I don't think the Democrats could have won this election due to the "watch it burn" mindset I mentioned before. I once thought that Sanders would have cinched it, but now I wonder how many Clinton supporters would have sat home and if Sanders would have motivated independents to the poles.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #588
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Re: Trump

@Mr. Veech: Mithras has treated me with respect as well and I'm not discrediting his intelligence. However, I don't think his hatred for Islam is an idiosyncratic belief but a core part of his being.

Once we commit ourselves to a passion, noble or sordid, it is of no importance, we are certain to proceed from torment to torment. The very aptitude to endure them shows that we are predestined to suffer. We love only because unconsciously we have renounced happiness. The Brahmanic adage is irrefutable: 'Each time you create a new tie, you drive another pain, like a nail, into your heart.'
(Emil Cioran, The Fall Into Time)
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Old 5 Days Ago   #589
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
'Fraid not lol. Pennsylvania hill boys are in it for the long run.
I'm hoping that's true of the Trumpster as well!
You keep saying stuff like thisólet's see how things turn out, let's give him a chance, etc.

1. His incompetence as a leader, by every metric, was clear well before he was elected to anyone paying attention, rendering the "give him a chance" sentiment a dangerous absurdity.

2. He proves his incompetence on an almost daily basis, from his unqualified appointments and hires to his blatant corruption, childish pettiness, and utter disconnection from reality.

At what point do you start to lose confidence in this man's ability to govern? Where do you, personally, draw the line?

What does Trump have to do for you to decide, as many of us did a long time ago, that the "give him a chance" sentiment is predicated on an improbability?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #590
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Even if I can't successfully refute someone's argument, I feel a responsibility to at least note my strong objection to some ideas. Like putting up a traffic sign letting people know there's a dangerous path that shouldn't be taken.
There can be consequences for letting things slide, even if you have no hope of convincing the other person. And it means something to show that you care about James and Ibrahim being insulted the way they were. It's a good way to maintain a community.
I did have both James and Ibrahim (your friend) in the back of my mind while writing that post. Both of them have also treated me with respect, so I was hoping neither of them would construe what I've said regarding Mithras as a personal attack against them. That was certainly not my intent.

I know the best thing to do is avoid everything altogether, but I dislike conflict amongst members here, my misanthropy notwithstanding. I suppose it's none of my business, but I genuinely hate seeing members, all of whom I personally like for different reasons, at each other's throats. Ironically, I can't help focusing on the pleasant aspect(s) of TLO members.

I've already accepted the fact that this place is populated with eccentrics of all kind, myself included. I wouldn't have it any other way. I imagine this website looks like a digital madhouse to an outsider. That's fine. I actually like this place, so I don't like these fractures that happen from time to time. Perhaps I'm just the neighborhood cowardly mediator.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"

Last edited by Mr. Veech; 5 Days Ago at 08:03 PM..
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