09-02-2014 | #11 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 557
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
The obvious solution would be to create an awards statue that includes both Lovecraft and Butler, possibly embracing each other, possibly with Cthulhu mediating, or present as a child figure. I think Butler would have approved of this, seeing as her Xenogenesis series explicitly deals with understanding and integrating and even reproducing with threatening Others (racists, bigots, actual inhuman extraterrestrial beings, etc.) rather than calling them names and casting them out. This kind of statue would also probably piss everyone on both sides off, which I think Butler would have appreciated as well. She was always much too intelligent to ever fall for simplistic identity politics. | |||||||||||
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09-03-2014 | #15 | |||||||||||
Acolyte
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 60
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
Regarding China Mieville, I think his view of Lovecraft is much more nuanced than the quote people are using of him on Lovecraft would leave you to believe. For example, take his view of "The Horror at Red Hook Inn":
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09-03-2014 | #16 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,532
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
I've always regarded "The Horror at Red Hook" as a major Lovecraft work. So did many anthologists until the 70's. The opening paragraphs are written with a beautiful precision and the description of an agoraphobic anxiety attack is extremely well done. Compare it to the conclusion of "The Other Gods" which also seems agoraphobic in nature, fear of falling upwards into boundless space.
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09-03-2014 | #17 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 526
Quotes: 0
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
Hmmm, may I respectfully suggest that people here are being far too pusillanimous. Lovecraft was by today's standards a racist. What of it? I assume 90% of people read him for the pleasure derived form his fiction, another 5% love his philosophy and 18th century gentleman persona, maybe 5% or less read him for his political and racial views. Why should admirers of Lovecraft apologise? When I meet a fan of Wagner I do not expect them to 'explain away' his anti-semitism, nor do I inspect that person for traces of anti-semitism. I read Celine for his fiction and do not care about his Fascist phase. As a friend of mine said to me recently, it is highly ironic that today's literary commentators, most of whom are fervent atheists and secularists, are engaged in a witchhunt of Inquisition like dimensions when they examine figures from the past, always looking for putative 'sinning' against today's moral prejudices, which are, of course, deemed to be infallible and the peak of ethical perfection. I say, Let us stand up to the Thought Police!
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09-03-2014 | #18 | |||||||||||
Town Manager
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
Quotes: 2
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
I was surprised when I reread this one the other day and really enjoyed it and found a lot to admire in it. I don't think it's one of his best stories, mind you, but it certainly isn't one of his worst. | |||||||||||
"Thomas Ligotti is a master of a different order, practically a different species. He probably couldn’t fake it if he tried, and he never tries. He writes like horror incarnate.”
—Terrence Rafferty, New York Times Book Review
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09-03-2014 | #19 | |||||||||||
Town Manager
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,590
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
I can't speak for others, but my defensiveness about Lovecraft's racism comes from reading so many of his letters over the years. I feel like I know the guy, and thus when he's reduced to being merely "a racist," there's a real need to explain and contextualize his racism as well as point out the complexities (e.g. his marriage to a Jewish woman; his many friendships with tolerant progressives and his evolution from hardcore conservative to moderate socialist).
I don't apologize for the many racist things HPL wrote and likely said in his lifetime. But it's hard for me to swallow an assessment of him as a mere racist without wanting to give a detailed response to the charge. That stated, Malone, I agree that in the context of HPL's work, whether he was a racist or not is immaterial. His stories either are effective and worthy of merit or they're not. And I believe many--even most of them--are. And some of them like "The Music of Erich Zann," "The Rats in the Walls," and "The Haunter of the Dark" are weird tale masterworks. | |||||||||||
"Thomas Ligotti is a master of a different order, practically a different species. He probably couldn’t fake it if he tried, and he never tries. He writes like horror incarnate.”
—Terrence Rafferty, New York Times Book Review
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09-03-2014 | #20 |
Guest
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Re: Octavia E. Butler against Lovecraft (World Fantasy Award).
My conclusion is that I don't trust ideologues when it comes to Art.
Mark S. |
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