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Old 01-30-2017   #31
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis View Post
You can't spend all your time creating artistic beauty if you're in a war zone
although some of the finest decadent art emerges as conditions for it's creation collapses I think, or perhaps this is only true in retrospect and because of our love of the liminal, because everything is in decay...



" what do you think of Death in June?"




but have they done anything lately?

"suckers for posterity" aren't we all
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Old 01-30-2017   #32
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis View Post
The society Nietzsche inhabited was relatively permissive.
Relatively permissive compared to other societies, but still tyrannical in its inculcation of supposedly objective, rigid, unquestionable values among the populace.
*Sigh* Not that I think the mores of 19th century Germany were anything wonderful but is the implied condemnation of the 'tyrannical' based on objective and thus unchanging values?
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Old 01-30-2017   #33
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

No, it is based on society's mandatory indoctrination of ideology. I have no idea if morals are objective or not. Perhaps sin is as material as water appears. I really have no idea. All I do think is that believing in something purely because it is taught is poor form, and I am sympathetic to writers who work against this idea whether they be nihilists, mysticists or Christians or Muslims.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
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Old 01-30-2017   #34
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

ToALonelyPeace- I don't know if Rice is sincere about his beliefs but besides that he does seem like a hardwired provocateur. I don't know about Death In June in that respect.

Being a poseur doesn't necessarily prevent one from being a good artist. I've read that Kubin was like this and it is sometimes said that all artists are peacocks and there is a theory that all art comes from mating instincts, even if you're asexual or extremely self-indulgent. Who knows?

Reminds me when Frater linked an 80s documentary about bands like Coil and Current 93 and said something about the bands competing in pretentiousness. Great bands still and probably fine people. A lot of bands will have stuff like this that they look back on and cringe. Guy from Godflesh says he was haunted by an early tv interview he did.

Some thoughts on rebels: I think rebellion should be a last resort if nothing else works. People who have a general rebel stance are perhaps afraid of civil attempts to make things right with potential opponents, afraid to extend a hand and have it slapped.

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Old 01-30-2017   #35
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Why anyone would go out of their way to pose as a nihilist and/or pessimist is completely beyond me, unless, of course, they're trying to get more people to buy their music albums. There are very few (if any) benefits to embracing a grim worldview. Those that do, the ones who are presumably not poseurs, do so because they find such a worldview compelling insofar as they see it as true.

If anything, my own pessimism has kept me from becoming a "successful" human being, which is why I don't flaunt or even share my beliefs with people when I'm in a professional (or even social) environment. This place is an exception, but only because there are others like me here.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"

Last edited by Mr. Veech; 01-31-2017 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 01-31-2017   #36
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_P...and_confession

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Panzram

There's a deep sorrow and peculiar disgust in Huysmans' La-bas implicit in the comparison of the modern-day Parisian Satanists with the historical child-murderer, Gilles de Rais, and in the repentance of the latter before his execution as compared with the continued, chronic dabbling of the Satanists.

"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
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Old 01-31-2017   #37
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
ToALonelyPeace- I don't know if Rice is sincere about his beliefs but besides that he does seem like a hardwired provocateur. I don't know about Death In June in that respect.

Some thoughts on rebels: I think rebellion should be a last resort if nothing else works. People who have a general rebel stance are perhaps afraid of civil attempts to make things right with potential opponents, afraid to extend a hand and have it slapped.
I agree he's a nihilist poseur, but he's sincere in his fascist leanings.
I think extreme attracts extreme. In popular culture, most frontiers on sex and death have been thoroughly explored, the only thing left of shock value is misanthropy (of the killing-people-kind).
I'd argue every rebel has a martyr complex. The attraction of sacrificing peace and wealth for a grand purpose lures many. Once you take the role of fighting against decadence, every act can be justified in the name of a new vital world.

@Mr. Veech: At first it seems strange to me too, but the niche for nihilist, misanthropist, and antinatalist is apparently big enough for us to have poseurs.

"So in the end it remains advisable to accept whatever comes, to behave like an inert mass even if one feels oneself being swept away, not to be lured into a single unneccesary step, to regard others with the gaze of an animal, to feel no remorse, in short to crush with one's own hand any ghost of life that subsists, that is, to intensify the final quiet of the grave still further and let nothing beyond that endure." ---Franz Kafka, Resolutions
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Old 02-01-2017   #38
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Quote Originally Posted by ToALonelyPeace View Post
I think extreme attracts extreme. In popular culture, most frontiers on sex and death have been thoroughly explored, the only thing left of shock value is misanthropy (of the killing-people-kind).
I'd argue every rebel has a martyr complex. The attraction of sacrificing peace and wealth for a grand purpose lures many. Once you take the role of fighting against decadence, every act can be justified in the name of a new vital world.
I predict we'll see even more boredom and edgelording-related crimes as the 21st century progresses. There are already numerous examples of people in first world countries engaging in murder and terrorism mostly because they wanted attention and thought it seemed cool, or else decided it was the best way of responding to their (in most cases completely imaginary) persecution complex. While people like this were mostly isolated maniacs in earlier times, the Internet is now acting as an enabler, not only giving them a platform but allowing them to interact with like-minded people - as well as, crucially, giving them an instantaneous flood of attention and reactions. If your goal is a giant fanbase, why not just toss around a few bombs or blast up the school? It's worked for, well, more or less everyone who's done it in the past 20 years or so.

These people are like the fast crack version of old-style edgelording, and make Boyd and Dougie P, with their tired Nazi gimmicks, look pretty outdated. A chubby old white dude in a mask playing folk music? What about a killer Lao goth girl who's ALSO a Nazi (doesn't make any sense, but sense is pretty last century), or this real life Bret Easton Ellis character? No need to release any music to get on the cover of Rolling Stone, just need to pull off some amateur bombing work. Capitalism has taught us that celebrity by any means is the highest possible attainment, just as earlier stages of the West considered saintliness to be, so it's no surprise that everyone has started biting on Herostratus.
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Old 02-01-2017   #39
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis View Post
Quote Originally Posted by ToALonelyPeace View Post
I think extreme attracts extreme. In popular culture, most frontiers on sex and death have been thoroughly explored, the only thing left of shock value is misanthropy (of the killing-people-kind).
I'd argue every rebel has a martyr complex. The attraction of sacrificing peace and wealth for a grand purpose lures many. Once you take the role of fighting against decadence, every act can be justified in the name of a new vital world.
I predict we'll see even more boredom and edgelording-related crimes as the 21st century progresses. There are already numerous examples of people in first world countries engaging in murder and terrorism mostly because they wanted attention and thought it seemed cool, or else decided it was the best way of responding to their (in most cases completely imaginary) persecution complex. While people like this were mostly isolated maniacs in earlier times, the Internet is now acting as an enabler, not only giving them a platform but allowing them to interact with like-minded people - as well as, crucially, giving them an instantaneous flood of attention and reactions. If your goal is a giant fanbase, why not just toss around a few bombs or blast up the school? It's worked for, well, more or less everyone who's done it in the past 20 years or so.

These people are like the fast crack version of old-style edgelording, and make Boyd and Dougie P, with their tired Nazi gimmicks, look pretty outdated. A chubby old white dude in a mask playing folk music? What about a killer Lao goth girl who's ALSO a Nazi (doesn't make any sense, but sense is pretty last century), or this real life Bret Easton Ellis character? No need to release any music to get on the cover of Rolling Stone, just need to pull off some amateur bombing work. Capitalism has taught us that celebrity by any means is the highest possible attainment, just as earlier stages of the West considered saintliness to be, so it's no surprise that everyone has started biting on Herostratus.
When I was much younger and less guarded in my speech, I remember telling a friend and mentor that I wanted to be famous. His response was, "Easy. Just kill the queen."

"That's not what I meant," I said.

"Then just carry on doing what you're doing."

At the time, being young, I found this frustrating. When you're young you want already to have made your mark on the world. Well, he gave me the easy answer and, when I didn't like that, the difficult truth, as I now see.


"As the Director of one of the five greatest museums in our Eastern States has more than once remarked to me, From the Stone Age until now, what a decline!" - Ananda Coomaraswamy
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Old 02-01-2017   #40
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?

I would wager there are more people out there pretending to be happy than there are pretending to be unhappy.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
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