Parents and antinatalism

[wingsofwax]

Sometimes I wonder if antinatalism is a philosophy strictly for the childless. Is it a theoretical luxury for those without responsibility for progeny?

I wonder if I would still consider antinatalism a valid train of thought if I were to have a kid. It seems that there is a clash of reality and theory that arises when you become a parent. Which might be why (most) parents react so strongly when they hear about antinatalism. I would like to hear your views on this.

Can you be a parent and an antinatalist?

[Malone]

You certainly can be a parent and then become an antinatalist. Jim Crawford wrote his Confessions of an Antinatalist some years back. He has two daughters.

Confessions of an Antinatalist: Amazon.co.uk: Jim Crawford: 9780989697262: Books

 

Confessions of an Antinatalist: Amazon.co.uk: Jim Crawford: 9780989697262: Books

[Justin Isis]

Quote Originally Posted by Malone

You certainly can be a parent and then become an antinatalist. Jim Crawford wrote his Confessions of an Antinatalist some years back. He has two daughters.

Seems a bit "born-again virgin." Once you break your Antinatalism Edge™ it's DONE. If I was having an xAxNx party, Crawford would be turned away at the door whereas even a fifteen year old without kids would be able to get Xs Sharpied on the backs of his palms. The only way to not break your edge is to consistently wrap up or pull out!

Well, I suppose somebody could be a pro-life (in the true sense of the term) person and then twenty years after having popped out a kid come to believe that procreation is immoral. It's not inconceivable. I would suspect many or most antinatalists didn't hold their beliefs when virile teenagers or twenty-somethings out to have fun and frolics.

[Justin Isis]

Quote Originally Posted by James Sucellus

Well, I suppose somebody could be a pro-life (in the true sense of the term) person and then twenty years after having popped out a kid come to believe that procreation is immoral. It's not inconceivable.

Doesn't count still Dad!

[Mr.Plores]

In principle I am an antinatalist. The reasons are many, but mainly because I don't want to put anyone on this world to suffer. Even if it is menial and frivolous like most of my problems.
Second reason, I just cant be bothered having a child. It seems boring and expensive. I would probably hit them and just be resentful to the child. In general a ####ty parent.

However as of late I have been having this feeling of wanting to procreate. I don't know why... As if my internal clock is going crazy of desperation and just wants me to make a tiny, stinky human puppet. It makes me realize that fighting our programming is really hard. I go soft as mush at the sight of babies and imagine myself reading "Nethescurial" to my offspring before they go to bed...

It all makes me think. Are we antinatalists just immature, millenial-like creatures that want to postpone our inescapable fate? We do not dare to face The Ultimate Horror of Parenthood?

Sometimes I think so. I include my self in that group.

[Lord Jim]

Antinatalist is closely related to nihilism...life is meaningless, etc. Once I accept this idea, I could say, with a little stretching, that the only "true" antinatalists are successful suicides.

I have a child and I absolutely see the value of antinatalism. Though to adhere to all values of a single idea, and nothing else, is too dogmatic and unreal. We must live in the real and find escape, until something better comes along.

As someone we all known once said, everything is entertainment. My child is one of my entertainments, and it pleases me enough to make efforts to improve upon myself through him.

I more or less accept the validity of the arguments for antinatalism, but also have children, though I was unaware of the former before doing the latter. If I'm being completely honest, I have to admit that I would do it all over again. I also eat factory-farmed meat despite being very aware and supportive in principle of animal rights, drive two gas guzzling cars because of the convenience when I know all the reasons I shouldn't, and enjoy the privileges of being a fairly affluent American white male with a relatively clear conscience. Does all this make me evil? Probably not. Does it make me a hypocrite. Yeah, maybe.

[Malone]

Lord Jim, AN is not nihilistic, given that it attaches value to preventing needless suffering. Nor is it that hard: just don't get someone pregnant/pregnant onself. You'd be surprised how easy it is:-) And seeing a child as 'entertainment' is precisely the attitude AN opposes.

[Benatarian]

Quote Originally Posted by Lord Jim

Antinatalist is closely related to nihilism...life is meaningless, etc. Once I accept this idea, I could say, with a little stretching, that the only "true" antinatalists are successful suicides.

David Benatar and Sarah Perry say that meaning matters a great deal to most people. They don't say that life is meaningless. David Benatar mentions a grass counter could consider his life very meaningful despite his unusual life project. Here I would like to add that the grass counter could at some point develop lower back arthritis and unfortunately now there is no objective meaning to fall back on, because life is meaningless from the perspective of the universe. Maybe he would even experience his back pain as meaningless. The lack of meaning amplifies suffering.

Life would be a whole lot better if there was an objective meaning to it but this is not the case. For example even as an AN I wouldn't complain a tiny bit over my birth if it were part of a bigger plan like the phasing out of humanity. You see meaning makes a lot of difference. But we should be careful because ultimately meaning is a feeling. So when I hear someone say they think life is meaningless I no longer consider them weak or think they are dumb (like I did before I read about AN).