Thoughts on being a writer on Greydogtales

[Gnosticangel]

The Greydogtales blog posted this interesting piece on choosing the life of a weird fiction writer.


"There are many excellent writers of weird fiction who will not be remembered. I expect to be one of them (well, the ‘not remembered’ rather than the ‘excellent’ bit). But let’s not indulge in the cheerful supportive stuff for a moment, and let’s be real.

I (and perhaps you) have an inventiveness, a voice, and possibly a degree of craft, which exceed those of many authors who sell hundreds of thousands of copies of their books. I will never achieve those levels of sales. And you’re not supposed to say it, but I’m fairly sure I’m a more accomplished writer than a number of people who have contracts with the Big Five publishers. Yet I am largely unknown, whereas people who mass-produce often tedious, by-the-numbers novels have delightful fan clubs and an enthusiastic reception for every new work.

This is what is. It could be that you make choices."

greydogtales - Literature, lurchers and life

[In A Dark Light]

Quote Originally Posted by Gnosticangel

I (and perhaps you) have an inventiveness, a voice, and possibly a degree of craft, which exceed those of many authors who sell hundreds of thousands of copies of their books. I will never achieve those levels of sales. And you’re not supposed to say it, but I’m fairly sure I’m a more accomplished writer than a number of people who have contracts with the Big Five publishers. Yet I am largely unknown, whereas people who mass-produce often tedious, by-the-numbers novels have delightful fan clubs and an enthusiastic reception for every new work.

I couldn't agree more with him here. Just to take a few prominent examples from my book case; Damian Murphy, Colin Insole, Reggie Oliver, Avalon Brantley; all of these writers are considerably more adept at their craft than the vast majority of names appearing in the best sellers lists. Their imaginations are more profound and their prose is more majestic than that of those writing for the mass market.

I think, perhaps, that the key difference between the authors I've mentioned and those selling hundreds of thousands of copies of their works is what Arthur Machen termed ecstasy in literature. Murphy, Insole, etc, tap into that vein of ecstasy, whereas the best sellers are settling for tedium. Weird fiction, it could be argued, has evolved into true literature, whereas the mass market has reverted to a dismal variation of pulp.

It's not just weird fiction authors who distinguish themselves from the herd, however, but the publishers as well. What other genre can boast publishers such as Mount Abraxas, Egaeus Press, Tartarus Press, etc, who regularly put out volumes which can rightly be described as works of art in their own right?

The only living horror writer who will (almost) definitely be remembered generations from now is Stephen King. I think he will likely be looked back on as a modern Dickens. There is nobody else in the genre with a remotely comparable security of legacy. The other name authors in the field are more likely than not going to be obscure or lost generations from now. As much as I love Clive Barker, his mainstream star power has been extinguished considerably already. Of the connoisseur culture smaller horror writers we all champion, I suspect Ligotti and Barron have the best chances of posterity, but it's anybody's guess.

I don't think Machen's Hieroglyphics critique of the publishing trends of his era actually applies much to the modern landscape, where fantasy stories significantly seem to outweigh realist drama when it comes to cinema, videogames or other preferred media of the younger generations. Things have gone too far in the opposite direction in some ways.

Being an artist of any sort has always been a thankless task for most, including those who achieve mild success. It's one of the reasons I don't beat myself up for not finding success yet.

[In A Dark Light]

Quote Originally Posted by James

I don't think Machen's Hieroglyphics critique of the publishing trends of his era actually applies much to the modern landscape, where fantasy stories seem to dramatically outweigh realist drama when it comes to cinema, videogames or other preferred media of the younger generations. Things have gone too far in the opposite direction in some ways.

This is true, but I think it highly unlikely that Machen would have found much in modern day fantasy that would have suited his palette. I would say that far from the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction, the mass market has merely co-opted the fantastic, the result of which is that it has been dulled to a point where it meets with mainstream tastes.

Well, as I've said before I think Machen could be prejudicial in his tastes and that his literary philosophy wasn't entirely coherent. I think you would find more of the hidden truths and unknown pulses behind everyday life in some of the realist writers he slammed than with some of the writers of ecstasy he championed. The distinctions in Hieroglyphics seem quite random, but Machen was onto something interesting and for that we must forgive him his blunders. For one thing George Eliot was a profoundly great writer.

Dodgy mainstream fantasy has always led the way to positive new paths. We've all read Castle of Otranto, right? I think many would agree it wasn't better written than fantasy works by George R. R. Martin, Terry Pratchett, etc.

[Justin Isis]

Quote Originally Posted by In A Dark Light

Quote Originally Posted by James I don't think Machen's Hieroglyphics critique of the publishing trends of his era actually applies much to the modern landscape, where fantasy stories seem to dramatically outweigh realist drama when it comes to cinema, videogames or other preferred media of the younger generations. Things have gone too far in the opposite direction in some ways. This is true, but I think it highly unlikely that Machen would have found much in modern day fantasy that would have suited his palette. I would say that far from the pendulum swinging in the opposite direction, the mass market has merely co-opted the fantastic, the result of which is that it has been dulled to a point where it meets with mainstream tastes.

Seem to remember Alan Moore saying something like the mass readership wanting highly ordered and trivia-filled fantasy worlds to disappear into, in order to avoid having to deal with real life. This describes things like Game of Thrones and Marvel very accurately (both their literary and televisual incarnations), Harry Potter, etc.

Writing about everyday life - as in REALLY writing about it, not trying to fit it into some kind of novelistic scheme from previous centuries - remains much more difficult and unpopular, which is why almost no one actually does it. It's become taken for granted that 'writing' implies writing something fantastical (albeit in the most predictable way). Other countries will usually assume it's a mystery/crime story instead of a fantasy one, but the general trend is the same.

And without needing to single out individual writers, most 'Weird Fiction' already seems tediously outdated in its own time. This applies to the small presses as much as it does to anything that's achieved modest mainstream success. Although I'd argue this has more to do with the general guild tendency (workshops, writers' groups, the assumption that writers will double as university professors, etc.) and overall lack of imagination than with what most people would be willing to read.

[Apollonius]

Quote Originally Posted by James

The only living horror writer who will (almost) definitely be remembered generations from now is Stephen King. I think he will likely be looked back on as a modern Dickens. There is nobody else in the genre with a remotely comparable security of legacy. The other name authors in the field are more likely than not going to be obscure or lost generations from now. As much as I love Clive Barker, his mainstream star power has been extinguished considerably already. Of the connoisseur culture smaller horror writers we all champion, I suspect Ligotti and Barron have the best chances of posterity, but it's anybody's guess. Being an artist of any sort has always been a thankless task for most, including those who achieve mild success. It's one of the reasons I don't beat myself up for not finding success yet.

I somewhat agree with you on the matter of King being remembered for a long time; he's one of those writers who has, across continents including my country Bangladesh, brought people under the shadow of "thriller" genre and made them love it, with many authors being influenced by his works. He's heavily known and familiar unlike reclusive figures like Ligotti who's works, in contrary to "bestsellers" like King's, aren't all that known to many folks despite the fact that, in my opinion, Ligotti's works are deeper and "better" than King's ( and other writers like him). Against the preternaturally surreal works of Ligotti (or Barron whose works I have yet to set eyes on), King's books are "easier on the eyes", as I say it, and easier to fathom, whereas tales from our beloved recluse change color and meaning and the aroused feeling inside us every time we read it. That's why I love Ligotti, which many people obviously won't; coupled with his "social" inactivity, I agree on him being carried on in the coming generations is "anybody's guess".


Gabriel García Márquez said the exact same thing about writers- it's a totally thankless task.

Quote Originally Posted by Apollonius

Ligotti's works are deeper and "better" than King's ( and other writers like him).

Ligotti is a lot more consistent (it helps his output is minuscule compared to King's), but I'm in awe of both about equally. Teatro Grottesco and The Stand are literary balms to my soul. King's knack for hooking the reader on an unforgettable character or story is as rare and difficult as what Ligotti does with surreal nightmare imagery. Both have strengths the other lacks. There are countless writers who try to do what King does, and almost none succeed at his art. As with Alfred Hitchcock or The Beatles he'll go down as a major 20th century artist who achieved commercial and critical heights that ensure his legacy.

It's hard to compare their careers as for Ligotti it would be impossible to casually rattle out a novel every other year. If we look only at their best work -- and there is assuredly enough of King's best work to match the length of Ligotti's entire output -- we can see two exceptionally talented storytellers who chose different priorities in art and life. When King does roam into Ligotti's domain, he can still deliver. Revival is absolute top-tier Lovecraftian fiction that matches the best of what the small press authors have achieved in the genre.

[Apollonius]

Quote Originally Posted by James

Ligotti is a lot more consistent (it helps his output is minuscule compared to King's), but I'm in awe of both about equally. Teatro Grottesco and The Stand are literary balms to my soul. King's knack for hooking the reader on an unforgettable character or story is as rare and difficult as what Ligotti does with surreal nightmare imagery. Both have strengths the other lacks. It's hard to compare their careers as for Ligotti it would be impossible to casually rattle out a novel every other year. If we look only at their best work -- and there is assuredly enough of King's best work to match the length of Ligotti's entire output -- we can see two exceptionally talented storytellers who chose different priorities in art and life.

Well said!

I've read the monstrous length of a book "The Stand" back in 2016 and was hooked from start to finish; absolutely loved it... it remains one of my most favorite books and wish one day to buy a physical copy. As for Ligotti, I've only read his Teatro Grottesco and Songs of a Dead Dreamer collection; and Teatro Grottesco remains my favorite between the two.

[Ibrahim]

The article seems to confuse craft at a sentence level with craft at the product level, or to equate good writing with good writing only; there is a lot of elegant, beautiful writing happening outside of the confines of the big five publishers, sure, but generally people don’t care about elegant writing- they just want stories- and most of the weird fic discussed here is about mood, ambiguity and aesthetics.
It’s a plot thing.