Arthur Machen

[Ibrahim]

Nirvana in Karma: "I assume that this is a mutation of Christian dualism with some more heretical mysticism "

No theologian am i, but isn't Christian Dualism itself quite a divergent stream, not to say heresy, within Christianity; belonging to the Eastern Gnostic sects? In orthodoxy, evil is not an active force opposite good, but merely the absence of good?

Prince James, may i ask if you feel there is some sense or reason to Machen's anti-materialism, even though you yourself presumably have no recourse to (or need for) Machen's spiritual alternative?
As you seem to appreciate this world-view in Machen, i mean.

By the way, can anybody here regale me with spoilers as to the 'original version' of A Fragment Of Life? i'm really curious to the tale's original resolution, and Tartarus press books on the 2nd hand market are...well, let's say i must affirm, here, the cliche of the poor struggling artist.

Some of Machen's reasons for opposing materialism are of the specious 'explain why you feel an emotion whilst seeing a sunrise if there is no inherent divinity' variety, but his overall point of the sheer unlikelihood of the reality we experience coming close to the texture or form of its actuality is one grounded in compelling logic and a notion all too often forgotten by his and our society.

He explores this idea through the symbolism of the Graal or paganism, but in his works and philosophy everything we experience is seen as a symbol or a shadow of some truth we can only catch a fleeting glimpse of through the awe of poetry in art. Aickman and de la Mare nailed this idea in their fiction much more frequently than Machen did, but Machen was there first.

I should restate that I am an extreme agnostic/atheist and find Christianity distasteful for the same reasons I find extreme materialism distasteful. It is a reductive view of a universe that can only be most adequately described in vagaries and mysticism free of a 'Belief System', which the great Robert Anton Wilson reminded us were 'BS'. Machen's approach to Christianity was one of a man who wanted to indulge in mystery for its own sake. I find this highly admirable, even if I find monotheism generally tedious.

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim

Nirvana in Karma: "I assume that this is a mutation of Christian dualism with some more heretical mysticism " No theologian am i, but isn't Christian Dualism itself quite a divergent stream, not to say heresy, within Christianity; belonging to the Eastern Gnostic sects? In orthodoxy, evil is not an active force opposite good, but merely the absence of good?

You are correct about dualism being most common in the "heretical" historical sects. When I referred to Christian dualism in my original post, I was getting at the Christian idea that God and Satan, and their supernatural domains, were separate from the material world; but since it's a more specific belief than my initial interpretation of it I stand corrected.

'The muscles of her face were hideously convulsed, she shook from head to foot; the soul seemed struggling and shuddering within the house of flesh.'

– Arthur Machen, The Great God Pan

I'm doing a 'best of' reading of his terror tales in order. Today I have done The Great God Pan, The Inmost Light and The Shining Pyramid. Each balance awe and terror so well, even in their titles. I'll finish in the next few days with The Novel of the Black Seal, The Novel of the White Powder, The White People, Change and Ritual. The final two are sort of 'best of the rest' material, but they're rather good, and I prefer them to many of the more commonly reprinted Machen tales. I might do The Terror, as I remember enjoying it quite a bit last time when I went through it in several sittings rather than trying it all at once.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince James Zaleski

It sounds trite, but at its best Machen's anti-materialist fiction made me believe anything could be true. His five books The House of Souls, The Hill of Dreams, The Three Impostors, Ornaments in Jade and The Secret Glory, along with a a small selection of other tales (N, The Great Return), are profoundly mystical totems for my personal consciousness expansion.

My new Machen reading list!

[Ibrahim]

"...but his overall point of the sheer unlikelihood of the reality we experience coming close to the texture or form of its actuality is one grounded in compelling logic and a notion all too often forgotten by his and our society. " Amen, or, without religious connotation- well put, sir.

I am genuinely curious what people (for i have heard the sentiment voiced before) mean when they envision a mysticism free of its 'belief system.' That, to me, would be like wanting the taste of salt without the grain? The one is the agent of the other; mysticism is the indivisble core of any religion, and the further out one moves from this core ( prayer by rote, social pressure, political motivation) the closer one gets to, indeed, the dull heartlessness of a 'belief system.'

...what is an extreme agnostic/atheist?

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim

mysticism is the indivisble core of any religion

I don't really agree. Most monotheists seem to see the world in a very rigid, certain, defined and binary way with their religion impeding their connection to mysticism rather than aiding it. Machen actually seemed to agree with this.

Quote

...what is an extreme agnostic/atheist?

I don't harbour a firm belief in anything.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince James Zaleski

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim mysticism is the indivisble core of any religion I don't really agree. Most monotheists seem to see the world in a very rigid, certain, defined and binary way with their religion impeding their connection to mysticism rather than aiding it. Machen actually seemed to agree with this.

To tack on to what James is saying: a
in the Abrahamic religions, mysticism, though critical in the development of the religions (especially in the case with the Gnostic Christians), underwent a theological inversion over the centuries; the formative core became the aberrant periphery.

[Ibrahim]

Quote Originally Posted by Nirvana In Karma

Quote Originally Posted by Prince James Zaleski Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim mysticism is the indivisble core of any religion I don't really agree. Most monotheists seem to see the world in a very rigid, certain, defined and binary way with their religion impeding their connection to mysticism rather than aiding it. Machen actually seemed to agree with this. To tack on to what James is saying: a in the Abrahamic religions, mysticism, though critical in the development of the religions (especially in the case with the Gnostic Christians), underwent a theological inversion over the centuries; the formative core became the aberrant periphery.

Certainly not.
The mystical kernel is right there, waiting, at the core of the religion; that most adherents are content to delve no further than the outwardness of their faith, affirming it merely as a social phenomenon, does nothing to change that: the mystical core can be accessed through the sacred ceremonies and texts, but it will undoubtedly be true that few choose to do so.
Here, now, i cannot speak for any other, but of Islam i can say, since it means 'surrender', which is an act, that it only exists in the act of such a surrender. Since each creature is accountable for his own actions, this must be an individual deed, knowable only by Him/Her/It to whom this surrender is offered, and who offers it. This Surrender, then, or Islam, or religion, is a unique relation between two entities. How can the actual nature of this personal relationship, i ask, be defined by the perceptions of a multitude?

[singing flame]

What are the other stories in The Three Impostors like? Like you James I've only read the Black Seal and White Powder novels. I now wonder if the other ones are actually worth tracking down.