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Old 11-06-2016   #31
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Quote Originally Posted by ramonoski View Post
There were a couple interviews where Nic Pizzolato said that he didn't feel like discussing Cohle yet (in light of his Ligottian "influences") because we had to wait and see the last scene of the series to really grasp the totality of his character; and that this last scene was the first thing he wrote, and wrote everything else knowing he had to get there.

And that ending scene was really beautiful and brought tears to my eyes, and made me slightly melancholic whenever I thought of it for weeks afterward. Or at least it did way back when I first read it in Alan Moore's Top 10 comic. Yeah, light vs dark is the oldest theme in the history of narrative, but much like the Ligotti quotes, Nic lifted Moore's words almost verbatim. Whatever power that ending might've had to me was replaced with "seriously?". Like if I wrote a symphony and for the choral ending of the 4th movement I just threw in the "na na na na" coda from Hey Jude (with one or two na's changed for ni's or ne's, of course.) That's my big problem with the ending.

Otherwise, I think the first four episodes are pretty much flawless. If it was up to me I'd edit episode five to be shorter and make that the ending of the series somehow.
My first thought upon hearing the last bit of dialogue was that the writer intended for there to be some sort of transference between Marty and Rust. I felt like I saw what they were trying to do, but it simply felt unwarranted. They should've used more subtlety, which they did on certain occasions. For example, the scene where Rust hides the child in the bathroom right before a particular gunfight was powerful to me, because that simple act on his part seemed to contradict his nihilistic worldview.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 11-06-2016   #32
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Plagiarism issues aside, I liked the final episode and found it very emotionally moving, and I even liked the Rust/Christ parallels. I don't know, the scene where Marty is surrounded on his hospital bed by his family and is moved to tears, along with the scene where Rust breaks down as well, really gets to the sentimental fool in me. Maybe it just has something to do with seeing men cry in general!

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Old 03-02-2017   #33
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

The Southern Gothic tropes felt like old hat, but I still enjoyed the first two-thirds of the final episode. There were echoes of "Les Fleurs" from Songs of a Dead Dreamer. But Rust's redemption, so to speak, felt very trite and corny to me. Eye rolling, gag inducing stuff. He wanted to die, he wanted to be with his daughter again. If we (the audience) really cared about him and wanted him to have the "happy ending", then he should've died on the floor of Carcosa.
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Old 03-02-2017   #34
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

The ending felt rushed because they didn't exactly solve the criminal conspiracy. Also, more content on its occult elements and symbols would have been great. I even remember the scene where they even bought a copy of the *The Book of Symbols*.
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Old 03-02-2017   #35
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Quote Originally Posted by paeng View Post
The ending felt rushed because they didn't exactly solve the criminal conspiracy. Also, more content on its occult elements and symbols would have been great. I even remember the scene where they even bought a copy of the *The Book of Symbols*.
I didn't mind the lack of conspiracy closure. I did mind the sudden change of character on the part of Rust - it simply didn't make sense. Overall, I liked the show. However, it does irk me a bit that someone like Nick P. gets recognition, while Ligotti receives hardly any. I doubt Ligotti cares, but still ...

It's nice that Padgett stepped up and said something regarding the matter.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 03-02-2017   #36
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

The lack of closure on the conspiracy was important to the ending—Hart and Cohle make peace with the fact that, while they didn't take everyone in the cult down, they did get the one they were originally after. Battling the darkness one step at a time, etc.
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Old 03-02-2017   #37
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirlMask View Post
If we (the audience) really cared about him and wanted him to have the "happy ending", then he should've died on the floor of Carcosa.
If you're saying that having him die there would have been more powerful dramatically than the ending we got, I agree totally.

But if you're saying it should have ended that way because that's what the character and/or the audience wanted, well, I totally don't.

In any case, yeah, the corny pop-optimism of the ending almost undid all the good work put into the series up to that point. Now I fully expect McConaughey to revive the role a little further down the road when his movie career starts to falter, in a spinoff series that chronicles Cohle's spiritual rehabilitation in his latter-day career as a self-help guru, infomercial sage and motivational speaker in the Tony Robbins mold.

They can call it something like Rust Cohle: Blinded by the Light.

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Old 03-02-2017   #38
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Quote Originally Posted by cannibal cop View Post
Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirlMask View Post
If we (the audience) really cared about him and wanted him to have the "happy ending", then he should've died on the floor of Carcosa.
If you're saying that having him die there would have been more powerful dramatically than the ending we got, I agree totally.

But if you're saying it should have ended that way because that's what the character and/or the audience wanted, well, I totally don't.

In any case, yeah, the corny pop-optimism of the ending almost undid all the good work put into the series up to that point. Now I fully expect McConaughey to revive the role a little further down the road when his movie career starts to falter, in a spinoff series that chronicles Cohle's spiritual rehabilitation in his latter-day career as a self-help guru, infomercial sage and motivational speaker in the Tony Robbins mold.

They can call it something like Rust Cohle: Blinded by the Light.
Yes, I believe Rust Cohle wanted to die, in a way. To me, he found a way to avenge his daughter's death-- by disposing of a child murderer. So obsessed with that outcome was he, that he was entirely reckless while in Carcosa. I guess maybe it was more that he was unafraid to die, but I'm taking it all the way and saying that he wanted to die while slaying the monster. I think, no matter his pessimism, deep down he believed he would one day meet his daughter again. Maybe I'm projecting my own ideas about why I'd like to have seen onto the show too much though.
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Old 03-02-2017   #39
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

Quote Originally Posted by GirlyGirlMask View Post
Yes, I believe Rust Cohle wanted to die, in a way. To me, he found a way to avenge his daughter's death-- by disposing of a child murderer. So obsessed with that outcome was he, that he was entirely reckless while in Carcosa. I guess maybe it was more that he was unafraid to die, but I'm taking it all the and saying that he wanted to die while slaying the monster. I think, no matter his pessimism, deep down he believed he would one day meet his daughter again. Maybe I'm projecting my own ideas about why I'd like to have seen onto the show too much though.
Yeah, I'm not really arguing with any of that, just with the idea that he should have died there to provide a "happy ending"--i.e. an ending that most of the audience or the character himself might have wanted to see.

Anyway, if they had done a half-decent job of it, I don't think there's any way it could really have been read as a happy ending. Especially not when compared to "The stars are winning!" or whatever it was.

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Old 03-02-2017   #40
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Re: The Ending of True Detective

To say that I was disappointed by the ending of True Detective is more than a mild understatement. I hated and even resented it. What I most remember about Cohle's maudlin little insight was that it immediately reminded me of Faulkner's acceptance speech for winning the Nobel Prize for Literature. The bit " I believe that man will not merely endure: he will prevail. He is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance. " This makes me want to vomit. I wasn't surprised at all when I later learned that Faulkner was one of Pizzolatto's favorite authors. I am always at a loss when people like Faulkner and Flannery O'Connor, who recognize the worst aspects of humanity, blather on about some positive 'spiritual' meaning. You read their work and it's all death, madness, and corncobs, but then they talk about 'prevailing' and 'grace' and other infantile fantasies. Give me a break, for ####'s sake.

Last edited by bendk; 03-03-2017 at 06:36 AM..
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