Robert M. Price - Lovecraft controversy

[mgriffin]

Straw man, maybe, Druidic? Show me where anybody ever said Lovecraft invented racism.

The majority of people I've spoken to, both at NecronomiCon and at the H.P. Lovecraft Film Festival here in Portland, have no problem enjoying Lovecraft's fiction and recognizing its importance and influence, and are neither confused nor in denial about the presence of racist attitudes in his fiction, poetry and letters.

[Druidic]

mgriffin, don't you recognize sarcasm when you see it?
In any case only idiots worry about the political correctness of a man born over a century ago; and I can't take seriously that crowd at NecronomiCon.

[Christopher]

Lovecraft aside, I wasn't at the NecronomiCon and I'm far more familiar with Price's work with the Jesus Seminar and Jesus mythicism than his Lovecraft research, but his right-wing views and racism have never been a secret. His interviews and essays from various sites are readily available for anyone curious about his opinions. The essay below on the "knockout game" is just one of many examples from his site, excluding the controversial Facebook posts, interviews, and whatnot:

"There is violence in the streets, and it is a game to the perpetrators. And since the assailants are African-American, the mainstream media claims it is all an urban legend. None of it ever happened, because none of it ever could have happened. For everyone knows that African-Americans do not commit crimes. Ot at least Whites lack the right to say they do. That would be racist! As anomic black youth target Jews for assault in the 'Knock Out Game,' Political Correctness is clubbing America itself."

...and follows with:

"Our culture is so morally blind, so delusional, that it thinks it best to take guns away from law-abiding citizens so they cannot commit the 'crime' of self-defense against the assaults of the perversely romanticized savages and predators that run amok in our 'liberal' society."

One can only imagine what segment of society Price considers "romanticized savages" and "predators". (And depsite his assertions, the Knockout Game was a myth, an example of the media exacerbating white fear and scapegoating black men.)

As for the NecronomiCon speech, I find Price equating "irrationalism" with various faiths so intimately connected to specific cultural and ethnic identities to be a lazy and dismissive critique at best. I have difficulty accepting his backpedalling defense of "I do not blame all Muslims for Jihadism, but some refuse to condemn Jihad because they think that would implicate all Muslims. Not me."

Disingenuous at best given his insistence that Muslims are "primitives" and "savages". While acknowledging there are moderate Muslims, they are nonetheless "cowards (and secret sympathizers), [for violent extremists]. Price further implicates all Muslims by stating, "I regard islam as a religion of barbarism, a self-confessed death cult, a great step backward in the evolution of religion."

Criticizing Islam is fair game, exposing atrocities and arguing socio-political conflicts is necessary, but Price's rants are not-so-thinly-veiled bigotry. His name being associated with Weird Fiction is repugnant. NecronomiCon was just the latest example of his racism and intolerance.

I say good riddance to bad Lovecraftians.

[Druidic]

Sorry, I don't see the bigotry in those quotes of Price you've posted. He's making some interesting observations; others are free to disagree with them.

The overall feeling I get from his comments about society's views on black crime and Islam is that he's exaggerating the broadly left-wing viewpoint to the extent he believes it is representative of the mainstream public, media and government's – which it is not. There are many criticisms I can make of the society I live in, but that it is too kind to black people or accepting of Islam is not one of them. In actuality this is a society in which the government and media scapegoat both groups to absolutely ludicrous degrees.

I don't dislike Price, but politically he seems like just another old white guy arguing against political correctness and in favour of the status quo, whilst labouring under the mistaken impression he's somehow being rebellious. I am not a fan of Islam at all, but I'm also aware that Muslims are the single most scape-goated group of people in my country, and a public platform shouldn't be used to further an agenda against them. There is no way I can look at the West as it is now and think that we ignore Islamic extremism (as I said, it's everywhere on the news to the point of sensationalism) or handle black crime too lightly (the US police kill black people with impunity, in increasingly greater numbers).

The left-wing mindset he's railing against is one that is in the minority in our media, government and culture, and only seems too visible to him because it is visible at all.

[dr. locrian]

Price is a very knowledgeable Lovecraft scholar. That stated, the political viewpoints he's espoused in the past are uniformly uninteresting, uninspired and--to my mind--irrelevant to Lovecraftian scholarship.

[New Devilry]

Quote Originally Posted by James Sucellus

I don't dislike Price, but politically he seems like just another old white guy arguing against political correctness and in favour of the status quo, whilst labouring under the mistaken impression he's somehow being rebellious. ... The left-wing mindset he's railing against is one that is in the minority in our media, government and culture, and only seems too visible to him because it is visible at all.

Agree, 100%.

Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Locrian

Price is a very knowledgeable Lovecraft scholar. That stated, the political viewpoints he's espoused in the past are uniformly uninteresting, uninspired and--to my mind--irrelevant to Lovecraftian scholarship.

That's my take on this. Any time he's veered away from Jesus and Lovecraft scholarship into political issues, I've just stopped paying attention.

That said, I'm glad this discussion is taking place. The problem is tone deafness, and the level of tone deafness displayed in that speech is troubling, and his attempt to inject his politics into Lovecraftian discourse should be challenged, as is happening now.

[Justin Isis]

Surefire formula for success:

1) Directly copy Lovecraft's ideas in fiction, then form a group with your friends based on associating yourself with him and ideas you copied from him.

2) Talk about how Lovecraft had a limited mindset and was basically a sheltered human being unable to adapt himself to society or understand the greater human condition, and how lamentable it is that this is the case when you're having fun copying his ideas and wish that he'd made it easier for you to like him personally.

3) Directly copy Lovecraft's ideas again but talk about how you're "updating" or "adapting" them to be more diverse, modern or acceptable.

4) Put on events about Lovecraft and sell tons of merchandise based on directly copying his ideas while simultaneously holding discussions in which Lovecraft is criticized for not having views closer to your own.

5) Travel back in time with time machine built with funds made from copying Lovecraft's ideas and ask Lovecraft questions about "objectionable" comments he made in private letters.

6) Assure dying Lovecraft that although he was unable to make a living from his ideas and as a result is now dying alone in poverty, his legacy is safe with people such as yourself who are copying his ideas, except with greater sensitivity and a broader outlook on social issues.

7) Be honest by letting dying Lovecraft in on the truth that in fact not everyone feels the same as you, and that many people in the future actually consider him to be a terrible writer - "You can't win 'em all!"

8) Pose for pictures with dying Lovecraft. It may be necessary to prop him up on the pillow a bit or shake him around if he's not feeling up to it.

9) Sell pictures taken with dying Lovecraft at event you're putting on about Lovecraft.

[Masonwire]

The New Yorker focused more on crossants than on racism.

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

I think it is better to keep people like Price around and keep debating but it takes heroic levels of patience.
I mentioned earlier the whole divide in SF/Fantasy and I found it very refreshing that on some websites so many opponents are being fairly civil in their arguments; but it's exasperating how much absurd assumption, dancing around/avoidance of certain points there is, and it repeats itself endlessly. Determined stubbornness.