THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK
Go Back   THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK > Miscellanea > Off Topic
Home Forums Content Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Contagion Members Media Diversion Info Register
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes Translate
Old 09-16-2009   #1
Julian Karswell's Avatar
Julian Karswell
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Quotes: 0
Points: 16,748, Level: 89 Points: 16,748, Level: 89 Points: 16,748, Level: 89
Level up: 43% Level up: 43% Level up: 43%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Producers and editors: the hidden shadows

Editors - like record producers - often contribute to the 'end product' of an artistic endeavour. Having examined the archives at Kings College, Cambridge, it seems likely that M.R. James' publishers did not edit his work beyond tentatively highlighting the odd grammatical flaw. In contrast, I am quite sure that Charles Dickens and Mary Braddon input heavily into work they published in their roles as editors on those staple Victorian journals 'All The Year Round' and 'Belgravia'.

In the music world, I should imagine that Radiohead have very firm ideas about how they would like their music produced whereas The Beatles and U2 collaborated with George Martin and Brian Eno.

Here's an interesting example of producer input.

Frankie Goes To Hollywood's 'Relax' prior to Trevor Horn's involvement:


The same song afterwards:


Are writers ashamed of collaborating with others, whether it be a fellow writer or an editor? Are they by nature wolverines, living in curmudgeonly isolation?

JK
Julian Karswell is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Daisy (09-17-2009), Joe Pulver (09-18-2009)
Old 09-17-2009   #2
gveranon's Avatar
gveranon
Grimscribe
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,115
Quotes: 0
Points: 27,554, Level: 100 Points: 27,554, Level: 100 Points: 27,554, Level: 100
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Activity: 7% Activity: 7% Activity: 7%
Re: Producers and editors: the hidden shadows

I don't know if you've heard about this, but there is currently a controversy involving the late short-story writer Raymond Carver and his editor Gordon Lish. Carver's stories have a very high reputation, at least in the U. S. He was known for his spare, carefully controlled prose. His stories aren't quite my cup of tea, but the few I've read are certainly well done, and the best of them are powerful and memorable. Anyway, it has long been known that Carver's stories were edited extensively by Gordon Lish. How extensively was not known until recently, when some of the stories were republished as Carver originally wrote them. Now some people are saying that the original stories are inferior to the Lish-edited versions, and that Carver's characteristic spare prose was evidently not a product of his own talent but of Lish's editing. I haven't seen any of the republished stories, and I don't know if this is a fair judgment.

Even if many writers weren't control freaks to begin with, the possibility of having one's reputation torpedoed in this way would be quite enough to explain why writers are so tetchy about allowing editorial collaboration, and so eager to downplay it when it has occurred. Musicians don't seem to be as burdened by the expectation that they be sole creators, "onlie begettors," perhaps because so much music is collaborative to begin with.

Last edited by gveranon; 09-17-2009 at 02:42 AM..
gveranon is offline   Reply With Quote
2 Thanks From:
Daisy (09-17-2009), G. S. Carnivals (09-17-2009)
Old 09-17-2009   #3
Mamatas's Avatar
Mamatas
Acolyte
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 59
Quotes: 0
Points: 8,360, Level: 63 Points: 8,360, Level: 63 Points: 8,360, Level: 63
Level up: 70% Level up: 70% Level up: 70%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Send a message via AIM to Mamatas
Re: Producers and editors: the hidden shadows

Primary Sources: Edited : The New Yorker

This link is interesting, in that by using bolds and strike-throughs, shows the differences between the Carver original and a Lish edit.

Of course, even this visual depiction might be a little misleading. This was shown to us in a course I was taking, and a number of students flipped out, saying stuff like "Lish started changing things for no reason! Even the name, the very third word!" as if Lish were cutting and adding as he read the first time (the way we read the story with its edits).
Mamatas is offline   Reply With Quote
3 Thanks From:
G. S. Carnivals (09-18-2009), gveranon (09-18-2009), Spotbowserfido2 (09-19-2009)
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
editors, hidden, producers, shadows

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Writers, editors, artists, why don't you display your name? Robert Adam Gilmour General Discussion 15 09-22-2016 01:27 AM
TLO Welcomes Hidden X TLO Welcome 0 08-09-2016 07:03 AM
Question for writers/editors Brian Off Topic 0 05-08-2015 06:39 PM
50 DARK MOVIES HIDDEN IN A PAINTING Ligeia Miscellanea 2 10-27-2008 06:36 PM
The Sky Had Hidden Itself Dr. Bantham "The Shadow at the Bottom of the World" 0 07-24-2005 10:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:22 PM.



Style Based on SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER as Published by Silver Scarab Press
Design and Artwork by Harry Morris
Emulated in Hell by Dr. Bantham
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Template-Modifications by TMS