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Old 05-19-2017   #1001
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Mörkö View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Nemonymous View Post
"It becomes frivolous to focus on the person's character rather than his or her strategies."

Aren't they dependent on each other?
Not in the modern age, sadly.

Since Kissinger, the USA has followed the strategy of "realpolitik" (i.e., "politics or diplomacy based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises"). A lot of these decisions are planned in advance by think-tanks and their sponsors. The candidates largely just try to placate the masses with simplistic narratives as the overall grand strategy rolls along.

Strategies and tactics need to be implemented in the optimum way. With Trump's character faults, as head honcho, makes that far more difficult.

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Old 05-19-2017   #1002
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Pan Michael View Post
As a lifelong Conservative, I'm appalled by what the Republican Party has become. No matter how egregious Trump's behavior, there's nary a word of protest by a single Republican. Is there honestly not one person in this party with core convictions, who will stand up to this guy?

Alas, even though Ted Cruz is a particularly loathsome specimen, he must be kicking himself that he came crawling back to Trump and endorsed him, after that defiant convention speech of his. If he'd only stuck to his supposed principles, he'd look like the Wise Old Man of the Party right now!

And you gotta love the smarmy Religious Right for continuing to stand by and defend this guy. As Holden Caulfield said in the Catcher In The Rye, "Jesus would puke if he saw what people were doing in his name!"
Might be a good time to ask yourself why do you keep associating with either "brand", if conservatives/christians don't stand for anything you yourself do.
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Old 05-19-2017   #1003
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Mörkö View Post
Trump is not anti-Muslim. He is anti-Shia, not for religious reasons, but because they are rivals of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) and GCC, who while having atrocious human rights and being largely responsible for ISIS (giving it the ideological backbone) largely follow US imperial orders since 1974 with William E. Simon's deal (i.e., "neutralize crude oil as an economic weapon and find a way to persuade a hostile kingdom to finance America’s widening deficit with its newfound petrodollar wealth...
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The reason Trump is talking to Russia is simply: He's trying to bargain with them to isolate Iran so that way Israel and KSA can easily invade. This is why Trump turned a blind eye to Putin taking over Ukraine, and he's hoping Putin will do the same when KSA, GCC, and Israel invade Iran.
Look at Trump. He can barely speak a coherent sentence or go 5 minutes without blowing his fuse or changing his mind entirely. You're ascribing him a preposterous level of intelligence, awareness of the world and patience.

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Old 05-19-2017   #1004
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Mörkö View Post
Trump is not anti-Muslim. He is anti-Shia, not for religious reasons, but because they are rivals of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) and GCC, who while having atrocious human rights and being largely responsible for ISIS (giving it the ideological backbone) largely follow US imperial orders since 1974 with William E. Simon's deal (i.e., "neutralize crude oil as an economic weapon and find a way to persuade a hostile kingdom to finance America’s widening deficit with its newfound petrodollar wealth...
Quote
The reason Trump is talking to Russia is simply: He's trying to bargain with them to isolate Iran so that way Israel and KSA can easily invade. This is why Trump turned a blind eye to Putin taking over Ukraine, and he's hoping Putin will do the same when KSA, GCC, and Israel invade Iran.
Look at Trump. He can barely speak a coherent sentence or go 5 minutes without blowing his fuse. You're ascribing him a preposterous level of intelligence, awareness of the world and patience.
I agree that Trump is stupid, but even if it were Hilary in office, we would still see increasing relations with oppressive KSA + GCC, given she received funding from them and also views them as important strategic allies (regardless of their Wahhabi / Salafist ideology being a large reason for the ME's destabilized state), and other things implementing USA's grand imperial strategy. Read her emails justifying violent intervention in Libya and also support of oppressive KSA.

I think Chomsky was right to claim that Trump and Hilary were not really different from each other in their overall geopolitical strategy. I do think the think tanks largely help determine the course of the decision-making of executive body:


Last edited by Mörkö; 05-19-2017 at 06:54 PM..
 
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Old 05-19-2017   #1005
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Re: Trump

Morko, I think Trump's visit to Saudi Arabia is a terrible idea. I think it would be nuts to give them arms. They are not our friends and we don't need a proxy war with Iran.
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Old 05-19-2017   #1006
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by Mörkö View Post

I want you to imagine this thought-experiment:
Rather than ME having oil, Europe has it instead and some Eastern country takes interest. The Easterners notice there are Christian fanatics that are easy to bribe and will be compliant on how to price the oil and transact it in their currency. The Easterners prevent the Europeans from nationalizing their oil reserves, therefore they can't be truly sovereign, or becoming secularists against the Christian fanatics. This Eastern country supports the fanatics, by selling them arms in exchange for petrodollar revenue, who spread their regressive Christian fanaticism across Europe, destabilizing it. In response, other competing radical Christian extremists gain traction through ressentiment whilst the Eastern imperial overlords portray them as the source of all ill in Europe.
I suggest someone write an alternative history novel where the climate of hostility from the Thirty Year's War, the ongoing conflict between the the Protestant North-West and the Catholic South-East, continues and later develops around X fantastic natural resource which both sides try to harness (with support, overt or veiled, from foreign powers like the Ottomans et cetera et cetera). I imagine it would be something like a cross between The Glassbead Game and Dune.
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Old 05-20-2017   #1007
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Re: Trump

Criswell predicts....

I don't think Trump will last his first term. I think he will end up resigning, though in the process he'll blame everybody else for his incompetence rather than admitting any culpability. He has tangled himself in far too much crap already for this to turn out well. I find it hilarious that after the white house denied Trump fired Comey over Russia, Trump then went and blurted out that was actually why he did it. Incompetence personified.

God help us.... in the future...

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Old 05-20-2017   #1008
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Re: Trump

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
Criswell predicts....

I don't think Trump will last his first term. I think he will end up resigning, though in the process he'll blame everybody else for his incompetence rather than admitting any culpability. He has tangled himself in far too much crap already for this to turn out well. I find it hilarious that after the white house denied Trump fired Comey over Russia, Trump then went and blurted out that was actually why he did it. Incompetence personified.

God help us.... in the future...
The dying, spluttering fireflies in his head will continue tweeting, though. I have my own there. Shame.

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Old 05-20-2017   #1009
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Re: Trump

I started this thread having spotted an author in the past empathising with someone like Trump. Omensetter's Luck.

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Old 05-20-2017   #1010
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Re: Trump

"Might be a good time to ask yourself why do you keep associating with either "brand", if conservatives/christians don't stand for anything you yourself do."

I agree with this. I've never really identified with the Republican Party, as I'm more of an old-style Liberal in the 19th century sense, who just happens to think that health insurance should be considered a human right. I fear there is no current party for that strange combination!

I likewise agree with Druidic that the gravely misguided attempts of Neo-Conservatives to remake the world in our image, has led to countless negative consequences. John McCain is a far better person than Trump, but I wonder what kind of mischief he might get us into with his inflexible idealism? It almost makes one nostalgic for the good old days of classical Realpolitik, which was at least based on something fundamentally rational. To be sure, the Congress of Vienna was followed by one of the longest periods of peace on record.

Nevertheless, Trump doesn't really fall into any of these categories. He's no more a Neo-con idealist than he is a Kissingerian realist. He literally stands for nothing at all, beyond the basic proposition that he is the one who should be in charge. However, what is particularly worrisome with Trump, as Sam Harris and others have pointed out, is that he has the intellectual sophistication and emotional maturity of an eight-year-old. I'm sympathetic to the Antinatalists, and to those who would like to see this sorry world enveloped in a giant mushroom cloud--even if I'm not quite there myself. Yet for anyone who actually cares about the future survival of the human race, the fact that Donald Trump is now in charge of the nuclear codes, has to be the single most momentous fact of the past 10,000 years. As I said, I agree that people like McCain and Clinton represent a potential danger to world peace, but I just don't see them as rising to the same level of threat as Trump. Time will tell, but unlike either McCain or Clinton, I fear that Trump has zero ability to finesse his way out of a tricky international situation. (Imagine, for example, if Trump had been president during the Cuban Missile Crisis. What are the odds of a happy ending in that scenario?) And who knows? Trump might get so fed up with all this Russian stuff that he'll get us into a nuclear war with North Korea just to get the attention off of himself. I actually think this is somewhat realistic. And unless there is some kind of benevolent Providence watching over us, I think that the chances of something like this happening are greater than they have ever been before.

Last edited by Pan Michael; 05-20-2017 at 12:32 PM..
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