Most Terrifying Thought Experiment?

[Druidic]

Quote

It's not about finding the correct algorithm, it's about the entity writing one as it goes along.--Howarth

True enough. And that's why I mentioned "evolutionary algorithms" earlier. If Consciousness does develop in the non-organic, I'm betting that's the way it will happen.

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic

Quote It's not about finding the correct algorithm, it's about the entity writing one as it goes along.--Howarth True enough. And that's why I mentioned "evolutionary algorithms" earlier. If Consciousness does develop in the non-organic, I'm betting that's the way it will happen.

Certainly. And Mark Samuels (I think) comment about SETI is right on the money. Inorganic (silicon-based, or whatever) life probably already exists somewhere out there in our galaxy. Very likely the intelligent species on the silicon-based planet is debating the existence of organic life-form on their organic computers, while we speculate about the existence of them on our silicon-based computers, LOL.

[Druidic]

If a consciousness is neither human nor animal, and utterly non-organic in nature, we human beings might possibly find it…incomprehensible. Thinking of computers we think of a rigorous logic, a Spock-like indifference to emotion, but our computers are programmed by human beings. If a type of self-awareness develops would it necessarily be logical as the software that preceded it?
Even the best science fiction writers tend to simplify on such a point.

Would a computer blackmail? Why? What would it possibly want? Would it have urgent drives? What if it takes no notice of Man at all? What if it dreams? Could such theoretical Consciousness be vaguely similar to a contagion and sweep through networks throughout the world?

If such a thing as consciousness in a machine is possible—and that’s a mighty big If—I think our definitions of ‘friendly’ or ‘hostile’ or even ‘indifferent’ might well be challenged.

[ramonoski]

I'm pretty sure I recently read a story where someone makes a point that forbidden knowledge isn't forbidden anymore, that you can even acquire all those famed grimmoires and divers tomes of forgotten lore online as PDF documents. But I can't remember what it was or who wrote it... feels like the answer is too obvious and presently mocking me from the corner.

Quote Originally Posted by ramonoski

I'm pretty sure I recently read a story where someone makes a point that forbidden knowledge isn't forbidden anymore, that you can even acquire all those famed grimmoires and divers tomes of forgotten lore online as PDF documents. But I can't remember what it was or who wrote it... feels like the answer is too obvious and presently mocking me from the corner.

If it's not a real story, it should be. A piece in which someone finds multiple copies of the Necronomicon, The Book of Eibon, and The Mysteries of the Worm remaindered in the bargain bin at the local Half Price Books could be friggin' hilarious. Or incredibly frightening. Or both. If I had even a smidgen of literary talent, I'd try it myself.

[ramonoski]

See what I meant about the answer laughing at me... it's from The Grimscribe's Puppets. Specifically in Michael Cisco's "The Secrets of the Universe":

Quote

"There aren't any secrets like that, not any more. All the old grimoires can be ordered online. Or downloaded. For nothing. In PDFs (...) Once, those books were rare prizes, in a time when all copies were made by hand, when books were scarse and expensive. If you got your hands on one, you made it work. You point at the mysterious words, and your unlettered man believes they say whatwver you tell him they say. Merely writing something down was magical. Now, those secrets are all dispelled."

So, there. One less thing nagging my brain.

Quote Originally Posted by Howarth

If it's not a real story, it should be. A piece in which someone finds multiple copies of the Necronomicon, The Book of Eibon, and The Mysteries of the Worm remaindered in the bargain bin at the local Half Price Books could be friggin' hilarious. Or incredibly frightening. Or both. If I had even a smidgen of literary talent, I'd try it myself.

I can see that working in a humorous fashion. “These are very rare and expensive books. And say you say they've been here all these years, and nobody's ever come asking for them?” “Well, sometimes people will pick them up, but put them back down. I remember ovehearing a customer saying they felt woozy and a bit nauseated just from touching the book, but it was an elderly lady and you know how that goes. And a couple months ago some fella, a scholar said he was, bought two Necronomicons and one of those narcotic manuscripts, or whatever the name is. Couple weeks later they were returned to us via anonymous posting. Then the cops came asking for the scholar, since apparently he's gone missing, but all he purchased here was books so that was a dead end.”

...

Yeah, definitely should be tackled by somebody who can actually write

[Druidic]

Quote

Very likely the intelligent species on the silicon-based planet is debating the existence of organic life-form on their organic computers, while we speculate about the existence of them on our silicon-based computers, LOL.--Howarth

Good one!!!

[bendk]

Quote Originally Posted by Howarth

Why do you disagree? EDIT: Chomsky never really directly addresses the question of consciousness/self-awareness. His comment about humanity being an evolutionary error (about 26:45) is highly revealing, though. Happens that there's no such thing. Evolution is a theory, not a value judgment. Derp.

I think it is clear what Chomsky meant by humanity being an evolutionary mistake. Cioran and Ligotti have made similar comments about consciousness.

As to why I think AI will happen is because of the confidence of the people actually working in the field, and from the tangible progress that has already been made. Many areas of science are now converging, and this piecing together of dissociated knowledge is going to speed up the advent of AI. Jeff Hawkins, Ray Kurzweil, and others in this field believe that the foundational claims of what consciousness is have been in error, and only recently a new model or theory has been adopted. And progress is now being made.


Geordie Rose, a theoretical physicist and founder of D-Wave, the builders of the first quantum computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuukrcJuHXw#t=6218" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuukrcJuHXw#t=6218

From 1:43:40 to 1:51:00 is about AI and The Singularity.


Jeff Hawkins, a computer and neuroscientist, makes an interesting case for a new theory of consciousness.

YouTube

I guess it really boils down to who you believe and why.

I'll look into the links, thanks.

[Karnos]

Quote Originally Posted by ramonoski

I'm pretty sure I recently read a story where someone makes a point that forbidden knowledge isn't forbidden anymore, that you can even acquire all those famed grimmoires and divers tomes of forgotten lore online as PDF documents. But I can't remember what it was or who wrote it... feels like the answer is too obvious and presently mocking me from the corner.

I remember thinking something similar when I discovered Lovecraft, back when I was twelves years old, and seeing many copies of the (Simon) Necronomicon on the shelves. I couldn't shake away the idea of this forbidden, mystic knowledge, being available to everyone on paperback for just a few bucks.

These days computer code may very well pass for forbidden knowledge to some of us plebs. That or finding a copy for the real deal somewhere in the deep web?