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08-19-2016 | #1 | |||||||||||
Mystic
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
I'm new to TLO and by way of introduction I'd like to begin a discussion on your thoughts of the Lovecraft/Ligotti philosophy of the horror story and general worldview. This, for me, ties in to the argument of free will, specifically in that the type of world and universe described by their stories--broadly, one in which there is absolutely no meaning--requires a humanity that is free (or at least believes itself to be) in order to understand the full ramifications of that fact. So, the "cosmic joke" as Lovecraft put it and the "malignantly useless" as Ligotti ascribes existence in The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, go beyond any juvenile notion of horror by taking all notion of meaning and turning it on its head. In short, Man is indeed a puppet in some or perhaps many respects, but true horror comes from understanding that he is free to think of himself as free in a universe malefic in its indifference.
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08-19-2016 | #2 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
Great topic! To me, Ligotti is the logical extension of what Lovecraft started. Lovecraft communicated to me the fundamental indifference of the universe to humans. Ligotti fleshes that out (sometimes literally in his stories). The implications of such an indifference and of conscious creatures living in such an indifferent, often malign, universe. To me Lovecraft didn't present an "evil" universe. He presented a universe where conscious humans are as important as conscious insects are to humans. It is we, ourselves, who perceive it as malign and this is where I see Ligotti shine. Why do we think so? What are the implications of our interpretation? Basically, how does consciousness drive us mad with such knowledge. Love it.
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08-19-2016 | #3 | |||||||||||
Mystic
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
They both, in my opinion, extract monumental terror out of Albert Camus' general philosophy - that of revolt in the face of meaninglessness. Ligotti is a bit more of the pure distiller in this regard, while H.P.L opened the doors wide enough for a thousand tuberculocidal prose tyrants to spew their phantom phlegm upon the page.
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2 Thanks From: | DarkView (08-19-2016), miguel1984 (08-21-2016) |
08-20-2016 | #4 | |||||||||||
Mystic
Threadstarter
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
Interesting reference to Camus. Although in the universes of Lovecraft and Ligotti there is no victory or triumph for humanity in the face of meaninglessness. What are your thoughts on the turn of (somewhat) popularity of their type of horror?
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“Evolution cannot avoid bringing intelligent life ultimately to an awareness of one thing above all else and that one thing is futility.”
― Cormac McCarthy, The Sunset Limited |
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08-20-2016 | #5 | |||||||||||
Mystic
Join Date: Jul 2016
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
I think H.P.L. and Ligotti come to different conclusions than Camus regarding the philosophy of how to keep on keeping on in the face of a hostile/meaningless universe, but I would still say their general worldview's travel the same highway.
As to their recent surge in popularity, honestly I think that it is simply a case of the cream rising to the top (along with, for Ligotti, things like True Detective). The internet has made it easy to find the "best" artists working in any and every form and genre. So, budding and/or unadventurous fans of horror fiction need to simply check their favorite Reddit thread or Facebook group to see who everyone is talking about. Initially, the results tend to be the "hot new things", but diligent fans will keep searching for the hot new things influences, leading them to masters like H.P.L. and Ligotti. Also, there is probably something to be said about the imminent destruction of our species through natural events or the Singularity, so people in general are probably more aware that they are not the be all end all in our universe. Naturally leading them to Ligottiesque fiction and doctrines that that of Camus' | |||||||||||
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09-20-2016 | #6 | |||||||||||
Mannikin
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
Been a while since I logged on, but saw this thread on philosophy, and thought some of you might enjoy my latest Ligotti essay:
Thomas Ligotti: Dark Phenomenology and Abstract Horror | |||||||||||
Dr. Rinaldi's Horror Cabinet - S.C. Hickman
"he had discovered that paradise of exhaustion where reality ends and where one may dwell among its ruins." —Thomas Ligotti |
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8 Thanks From: | DarkView (09-23-2016), Hideous Name (09-21-2016), luciferfell (09-21-2016), matt cardin (09-21-2016), miguel1984 (09-21-2016), Mr. Veech (09-21-2016), paeng (09-21-2016), xylokopos (09-21-2016) |
09-21-2016 | #7 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 516
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
I see Ligotti as taking Lovecraft's ideas and progressing them to the next level; going a step further as it were.
Lovecraft's fiction posits that mankind is an insignificant spec in a universe which is actively hostile towards us, whereas Ligotti posits that the entire universe is in fact insignificant. If Lovecraft's elder gods exist, then they are just as meaningless and powerless as mankind. Existence is a freak accident in Ligotti's universe, and we should all be terrified of the void through which we sail. | |||||||||||
2 Thanks From: | DarkView (09-23-2016), miguel1984 (09-21-2016) |
09-21-2016 | #8 | |||||||||||
Grimscribe
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Re: Philosophy of Lovecraftian/Ligottiesque horror and the horror story in general
This is an interesting topic and question, DarkView. Someday I may come up with something new of my own to say about it, but probably not, so I'll follow the lazy route (which has become my custom lately) of quoting my own previous words, from my Lovecraft-Ligotti paper The Master's Eyes Shining with Secrets, since they touch on the very issue you raise:
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2 Thanks From: | DarkView (09-23-2016), miguel1984 (09-21-2016) |
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