Pessimism and afterlife

[Matthias M.]

As you may know, the 'afterlife' in which I don't believe is one of my favorite subjects.

According to Eugene Thacker as I understand him, there are two kinds of pessimism. The first I would call depressive or Ligottian pessimism, the second 'heroic'- or 'self-help'-pessimism. As Thacker says: "In Ligotti's hands, pessimism stands in contrast to a ‘heroic’ pessimism that ultimately serves human goals and aspirations."

From a Ligottian pessimist perspective, is there a general view on afterlife? From such a total pessimist perspective, would the general view be that if there would be an afterlife, it would be no cause for hope, rather an extension of life's suffering?

In other words: There are thinkers who are pessimistic about this life but clearly have a hopeful and optimistic perspective concerning a possible afterlife. Is the Ligottian pessimism an 'all-embracing pessimism', therefore a pessimism that is deeply pessimistic about this life as well as about possible afterlives?

Does the view of a malignantly useless universe entail that there is no happy, painless afterlife but either none or one that is as crappy as life was?

[Druidic]

I think the ancient Greeks had a conception of an Afterlife, never really systematized, that was deeply bleak. Reminds me of a victim of Alzheimer's trudging through gray fog. If the dead could have gotten a message to the living I'm sure it would have said: Don't Die.

[Matthias M.]

Maybe an interesting read concerning my questions:

'Pessimism and Immortality' by Radoslav A. Tsanoff
(JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie)
just click on 'Download pdf' after following the link

[Revenant]

I think in the Ligottian world view, if your very existence is an open question any discussion of an afterlife seems like a non-starter.

[DoktorH]

I think a ligottian afterlife would be as malignantly useless as regular life. more of the same excess of consciousness but with the added displeasure of knowing that death doesn't do anything to stop it. There's a Laird Barron story that sort of ends that way.

[Matthias M.]

Revenant,
thanks a lot for your 'to the point' - answer. That really sounds pellucid:

If we have no life, there's no one to have an afterlife; in this case there's not the slightest possibility for an afterlife.

[ChildofOldLeech]

The Beyond (1981) A Bleak Ending to the Movie - YouTube

- Whenever I think of nightmarish, Ligottian portrayals of the afterlife, I always think of the perfect conclusion to Fulci's Beyond, which despite being unutterably bleak is also presented as the best possible option:

''The message I was trying to convey was that our life is a terrible nightmare, and the only escape is to take refuge in this world without time. At the end of the film the protagonists have these sightless eyes and they end up in this desert without light, without wind, without anything . . . An absolute, immobile world where every horizon is the same." - Lucio Fulci

Fulci: "After a screening at a festival a little girl in a wheelchair came up to me to thank me for the wonderful nightmarish experience. 'These two hours were fabulous' she said, 'but now I'm sad because the worst of all nightmares awaits me: my future.' ''

[teguififthzeal]

This always messed me with me, because TZ was pessimistic and this is so subtle an ending.

TZ: Nice Place to Visit Ending - YouTube

[teguififthzeal]

This, above all the other TZ episodes, exposes the reality of death in a way i've never seen it done before. The ending has the fabric, the potency of reality to it.

The Twilight Zone S01E11-And When the Sky Was Opened - YouTube

[Matthias M.]

ChildofOldLeech,

Fulci says: 'The message I was trying to convey was that our life is a terrible nightmare, and the only escape is to take refuge in this world without time.'

What is this world without time exactly as a form of escaping the nightmare of life?