01-18-2018 | #31 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
What continues to draw me towards Schopenhauer is the overall impression his worldview has left on me. I believe he is essentially correct, but the manner in which he tries to support said worldview with philosophical arguments is riddled with plenty of flaws, some of which are elementary. I don't need a perfect philosophical system to convince me that there's something horribly wrong with existence. Experiencing numerous personal hardships is self-authenticating evidence for me. The very notion that a philosophical argument alone has ever changed a person's beliefs is one of the biggest lies humanity has propogated. Reason and logic are always used to retroactively support what we already believed. Luther and Ligotti, two opposed spirits, agree. Amusingly, the subservient nature of philosophy was already recognized by theologians. In Plato's defense, he did maintain that we never discover anything new, epistemologically speaking. Knowledge always involves recollection. As for how Schopenhauer could have possibily contradicted himself within the matter of a few pages, it seems probable that he wrote everything out of order. I personally do that whenever I write. | |||||||||||
"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."
~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil" |
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01-19-2018 | #32 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
My point exactly. Where's the sense in holding to the materialistic worldview while applying it to concepts that precede it/partake of a different context entirely? | |||||||||||
"What can a thing do with a thing, when it is a thing?"
-Shaykh Ibn 'Arabi |
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Thanks From: | Mr. Veech (01-19-2018) |
01-19-2018 | #33 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
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“Absolutely candid, carefree, but straightforward speech becomes possible for the first time when one speaks of the highest." - Friedrich Schlegel
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Thanks From: | Mr. Veech (01-19-2018) |
01-19-2018 | #34 |
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
I have definitely changed my views after online debates on a bunch of issues, though I don't generally expect to persuade people when I am myself arguing. It's mostly a silly mind puzzle to keep my fingers busy while I listen to music.
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01-19-2018 | #35 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
No offense, qcrisp, but I'm not buying it. | |||||||||||
"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."
~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil" |
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01-19-2018 | #36 |
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
I promise I'm not lying! People calling me out on my bull#### or presenting me with new ideas/facts I didn't know has changed my views on things. Honestly, guv. Swear daaarrrrn.
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01-19-2018 | #37 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
But you've made two different claims. Above, "that a philosophical argument alone has ever changed a person's beliefs is one of the biggest lies humanity has propogated", and here that you personally never believe anything new based on an argument. They're not the same claim at all. | |||||||||||
“Absolutely candid, carefree, but straightforward speech becomes possible for the first time when one speaks of the highest." - Friedrich Schlegel
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Thanks From: | Nemonymous (01-19-2018) |
01-19-2018 | #38 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
Just to elaborate a little:
"that a philosophical argument alone has ever changed a person's beliefs is one of the biggest lies humanity has propogated". Suppose this is true. Is this contingently true, or necessarily true? If it's necessarily true - that is, if it's built in to reality itself that it must be true - then you would need an argument to explain why it is built into reality. If it was contingently true, you would need in this case, I'd say, to know the complete biographies of every person that ever existed. Do you know these? To me, the position you're espousing seems like a way of saying, "Let's agree to disagree, because you know how tiresome philosophical arguments get. I just want to lay out my position, and you can lay out yours, but we don't have to actually listen to each other." This is understandable as a position, of course, because of (amongst other things) the reasons amusingly illustrated here: http://wondermark.com/1k62/ Anyway, I promise not to be a Terrible Sea Lion. I don't have much time, myself. | |||||||||||
“Absolutely candid, carefree, but straightforward speech becomes possible for the first time when one speaks of the highest." - Friedrich Schlegel
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Thanks From: | Mr. Veech (01-19-2018) |
01-19-2018 | #39 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
As for your question concerning whether or not I believe my first statement is a contingent or necessary truth, my answer is that I don't know. But I believe it's ultimately irrelevant. The question assumes the statement is actually far more controversial than it is. Here's one of the claims I'm making: "No one has ever changed their beliefs on the basis of a philosophical argument alone." What the statement itself suggests is that a thousand other variables help shape one's beliefs, variables directly associated with lived experience. A philosophical argument alone has never been the primary reason someone has changed or refined their worldview. Only a computer or someone who has suffered nothing in life could ever believe something on the basis of a philosophical argument alone. | |||||||||||
"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."
~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil" Last edited by Mr. Veech; 01-19-2018 at 03:06 PM.. |
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2 Thanks From: | qcrisp (01-19-2018), ToALonelyPeace (01-19-2018) |
01-19-2018 | #40 | |||||||||||
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Re: Anti-Natalism, Can It Really Exist?
@ qcrisp
It just now occurred to me that my initial response might have been construed as offensive. It was not my intent to imply that you were mistaken regarding your own experience - that would be absurd. The problem is that the claim I've made is not as controversial as some believe. In other words, the claim has been misinterpreted. | |||||||||||
"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."
~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil" |
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2 Thanks From: | qcrisp (01-19-2018), ToALonelyPeace (01-19-2018) |
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