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Old 11-27-2017   #11
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
just because I or someone else has to live in a place, doesn't mean it deserves the honour of being romanticized or depicted in art.
A place in reality, and that same place in art are actually two different places. There is no dependency. Neither has bearing on the other. Who cares if Machen's London ever existed or not? I've been there anyway.

And as an aside: good to hear some love for Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula. It gets a lot of things a lot more right than more pretentious filmmakers have even tried.

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Old 11-27-2017   #12
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
just because I or someone else has to live in a place, doesn't mean it deserves the honour of being romanticized or depicted in art.
A place in reality, and that same place in art are actually two different places. There is no dependency. Neither has bearing on the other. Who cares if Machen's London ever existed or not? I've been there anyway.

And as an aside: good to hear some love for Francis Ford Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula. It gets a lot of things a lot more right than more pretentious filmmakers have even tried.
Having recently reread the book, I can say that Coppola's rendition is very close to the spirit of the book. It's a faithful as well as beautiful movie, Keanu Reeves notwithstanding. As a matter of fact, the cast was required to read Stoker's Dracula together before shooting.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 11-27-2017   #13
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
A lot of people feel an obligation to romanticize their surroundings as if they're the equal of anyone else's setting in the past or present. I don't trust this tendency, I can enjoy what some places and things have to offer but just because I or someone else has to live in a place, doesn't mean it deserves the honour of being romanticized or depicted in art.

Unless it's completely necessary to use real settings for the purposes of the story, I don't think people should. Why not show a setting that architects will want to build? Why keep validating and perpetuating the boring places most of us live? I mostly don't like cars, I can enjoy things about them and I'm open to enjoying new things about them but there is no good reason I have to feature cars in my fictional world. We don't have to like or fictionally reproduce anything about the real world to make it bearable.
I was going to attempt to answer this, but sadly I think it would take much more time than I have. I know, anyway, what's necessary for me; I wouldn't want to mess with what's necessary for others.

(Brain melting from tiredness, too, so please excuse brevity.)

“Specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved." - Max Weber

Last edited by qcrisp; 11-27-2017 at 07:18 PM.. Reason: Apology
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Old 11-27-2017   #14
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour View Post
Unless it's completely necessary to use real settings for the purposes of the story, I don't think people should. Why not show a setting that architects will want to build? Why keep validating and perpetuating the boring places most of us live? I mostly don't like cars, I can enjoy things about them and I'm open to enjoying new things about them but there is no good reason I have to feature cars in my fictional world. We don't have to like or fictionally reproduce anything about the real world to make it bearable.
I prefer gothic or fantasy stories to be set in our world with hints of something other lurking just at the borderlands of consciousness. The more fantastical the setting, the less interested I am generally, which is why I rarely read futuristic, invented world or overly comedic supernatural fiction. I don't find them to be more imaginative than the works of Robert Aickman or Daphne du Maurier. I prefer my imagination to be excited by possibilities lurking at real life's edges than be presented with solidified fantasy worlds. That doesn't speak to me much, so I'm often left feeling like,'Okay, now what?' since there isn't the inherent mystery of possibility left to entice me.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
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Old 11-27-2017   #15
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

There's always more possibilities if you write them in.

Most fantasy settings really aren't that different from earth. I like a variety of modest and extravagant settings, but my main preference is a place made of nice shapes and textures.

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Old 11-27-2017   #16
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

I enjoy futuristic fantasy worlds such as those in William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land or Sarban's The Sound of His Horn because they're visions people from our world experience and add to the wonder and mystery of our real world. They are fantastical vistas anybody could stumble into when at life's edges, much like the 'our world' gothic fantasies of Arthur Machen, Walter de la Mare or Shirley Jackson.

'I believe in what the Germans term Ehrfurcht: reverence for things one cannot understand.'
― Robert Aickman, An Essay
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Old 11-27-2017   #17
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
I enjoy futuristic fantasy worlds such as those in William Hope Hodgson's The Night Land or Sarban's The Sound of His Horn because they're visions people from our world experience and add to the wonder and mystery of our real world. They are fantastical vistas anybody could stumble into when at life's edges, much like the 'our world' gothic fantasies of Arthur Machen, Walter de la Mare or Shirley Jackson.
This is why science fiction, especially the epic variety, doesn't appeal to me. In the realm of movies, I liked Bladerunner (and its sequel), but it managed to sustain a sort of unique "gothic" atmosphere.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

~ Clark Ashton Smith, "The Devotee of Evil"
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Old 11-27-2017   #18
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

Who knows what places might be real in the future. Maybe 100 miles large castles, sea planets and CASmith's purple sunlit deserts are out there somewhere.

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Old 11-27-2017   #19
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

I often feel my positive expectations for almost anything have been exhausted. I have spent my life in search of meaning and found none. I then turned to philosophy, art, literature, hoping to find a degree of, what? Something to fill the void? The expectation that this might be the idea, the story, the picture that ties it together for me? Makes me feel that there is something worth pursuing, creating, developing? Can I throw myself into this and keep my mind occupied instead of watching it spin uncontrollably like some errant meteorite? I fear I have spent my life in pursuit of the expectation of enthusiasms that would not ultimately betray me as empty. Perhaps once I have exhausted all my expectations, only then will I have the freedom,the presence of mind, to find my way.
Can lowering ones expectations affect their creativity? Yes, I think it can. Whether the effect would be a positive or a negative depends on the person.

"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind." - H. P. Lovecraft
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Old 11-27-2017   #20
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Re: Do your inevitably lowering expectations damage your imagination?

I believe lowering one's expectations is just a natural process for someone trying to understand the world they inhabit. Personally speaking, my great obstacle, that which haunted me for many years, was letting go of my romanticism regarding relationships (reading Byron, Shelley, and Goethe can distort your view of things). Letting go, seeing the truth, enabled me to actually pursue writing, so I can say that lowering my expectations has freed me to a great extent in terms of creativity. The amount of time used to chase unicorns could be better spent actually creating something of one's own.

"In a less scientific age, he would have been a devil-worshipper, a partaker in the abominations of the Black Mass; or would have given himself to the study and practice of sorcery. His was a religious soul that had failed to find good in the scheme of things; and lacking it, was impelled to make of evil itself an object of secret reverence."

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