Hitchens introduction to HPL's atheist writings

[Matthias M.]

Maybe a strange question, but due to my German background, I need help for my understanding of a sentence from the introduction to Joshi's 'Against Religion - The atheist writings of H. P. Lovecraft'. There one can read: "Some people truly are Protestant atheists. I would myself hold out for everyone to be a non-sectarian unbeliever even though debates with the faithful have left me with ever-diminishing respect for those who demand or expect the impossible." I just can't get his conclusion. Who can explain this sentence to me? Where is the connection from the first part of the sentence to the second? How does the second part led him to the conclusion that he would himself hold out for everyone to be a non-sectarian unbeliever? Thanks in advance for the help.

[Sbrain]

I don't have the Joshi book, but I've read a lot of Hitchens and watched him debate on the internet as well. It's great stuff, generally.
I think what he meant relates to a way of thinking, how you organize your philosophy as well as a tribal affiliation if you get my meaning. A protestant atheist like HPL grew up with the King James Bible and a sense of sin and redemption rooted deep in the puritan pilgrims who founded New England. There is a belief in the literal truth of the bible itself and an expected direct relationship with god that is different from the more hierarchical and metaphorical and mediated understanding of the Catholics toward their church. Hitchens sometimes refers to a Jewish atheism as well. I haven't read it fleshed out as a full blown theory, more just an aside. Lovecraft is definitely a New England puritan.
There is a joke he relates on Pg 18 of "God is not great". This is about the tribal nature of religion in Northern Ireland:
"There is an old Belfast joke about the man stopped at a road block and asked his religion. When he replies that he is an atheist he is asked, 'Protestant or Catholic atheist?"

As far as the second part I think he is saying that the patterns that we learn from childhood from the culture around us are hard to shake, as he has learned from debating believers about the existence of god itself. That is, he does not think that we can look forward to a world of unbelievers and that even if that happened we would still carry the philosophical scaffolding we were brought up with.

[warmsoda]

In addition to Sbrain's points, my reading is that although he would like everyone to be "non-sectarian unbelievers," being as it may be an unrealistic expectation, he probably shouldn't want it too hard as it puts him in company with others who also want impossible things.

[teguififthzeal]

Terry Eagleton's biography of Christopher Hitchens is very good, I think.

[Matthias M.]

Thanks to all for the help so far. I think that my main difficulty with Hitchens' quote is the following: Who are those he mentions that 'demand or expect the impossible'? Am I right that he means by those the 'sectarian unbelievers' like, for example, the Protestant atheists? Or does he mean the believers themselves?

[gveranon]

Quote Originally Posted by Matthias M.

I think that my main difficulty with Hitchens' quote is the following: Who are those he mentions that 'demand or expect the impossible'? Am I right that he means by those the 'sectarian unbelievers' like, for example, the Protestant atheists? Or does he mean the believers themselves?

Neither. Hitchens is aware that what he would "hold out for" -- everyone being a "non-sectarian unbeliever" -- may itself be "demanding or expecting the impossible." Although his debates with "the faithful" (that is, believers) have left him with "ever-diminishing respect for those who demand or expect the impossible," he would still like to hold out for his own ideal, which he admits may be impossible, of universal non-sectarian unbelief (in other words, unbelief without retaining anything of tribal mentalities and loyalties).

An old Trotskyist finally learning to have ever-diminishing respect for those who demand or expect the impossible. Ha! If only he had applied this insight to the "regime change" wars he championed in the Middle East.

[warmsoda]

Considering the context, I think Hitchens does mean the believers themselves, as you say. I think the passage you've quoted is meant to be a joke, Hitchens poking a little fun at himself. Basically, I think he's saying: "Here's what I would like to believe, what I'd like to hold out hope for, but I realize it's probably an impossible dream. And considering my run-ins with believers who believe in other impossible things, maybe I should let that hope go -- I don't much care for being as delusional as the others."

[gveranon]

Yes, exactly. I shouldn't have said "Neither" at the start of my reply. Hitchens means the believers -- and possibly himself, too.

[bendk]

Here is a brief essay by Robert M. Price where he describes himself as a "Christian atheist". (just included as a point of comparison)


http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.c...mber__2006.htm


And this is a Youtube video with a reading of The Portable Atheist edited by Christopher Hitchens. It contains a brief introduction on HPL and the Lovecraft letter he selected for this book.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=eSYhK6nXTcg