The temptation to NOT exist

[Nemonymous]

Quote Originally Posted by Russell Nash

The Vanishing Life and Films of Emmanuel Escobada (2002), in Nemonymous two.

A good example. A mythos tha made a non-existence really seem to exist.

[Odalisque]

Quote Originally Posted by Odalisque

Quote Originally Posted by Russell Nash Our lives are useless. Every second we live we waste energy, our dreams are fruitless, our entire lives are going to be forgotten sooner or later, so what's the purpose of living another day? What reason do we have to exist? Because we enjoy it? I'm just hazarding a guess, here. ;) It is possible to have a bit of fun.

Well, I still think that some of the people on here could do with lightening up.

Eeyore may enjoy being gloomy. All the same, I suspect that his method of playing Pooh Sticks may not be the most pleasurable one. ;)

I wonder whether that's the first A A Milne reference on the TLO.

[Odalisque]

Quote Originally Posted by Odalisque

I wonder whether that's the first A A Milne reference on the TLO.

Perhaps someone should start an A A Milne thread. Eeyore makes a good study in pessimism.

[Bleak&Icy]

Quote Originally Posted by Odalisque

I wonder whether that's the first A A Milne reference on the TLO.

No, it is not the first reference to Milne on the TLO. That honour goes to the mean and horrible (but witty) gveranon. He knows what I'm talking about... ;) (Something to do with Eeyore the neighing nay-sayer.)

[Odalisque]

Quote Originally Posted by Bleak&Icy

Quote Originally Posted by Odalisque I wonder whether that's the first A A Milne reference on the TLO. No, it is not the first reference to Milne on the TLO. That honour goes to the mean and horrible (but witty) gveranon. He knows what I'm talking about... ;) (Something to do with Eeyore the neighing nay-sayer.)

This?

Pessimistic Passage of the Day... - THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK

[Karnos]

I have been tempted, yes, indeed.

Why I haven't done it, however, is a long list and cowardice is somewhere amongst the first points.

The way I see it is like this: I'm not afraid of death, I'm afraid of dying.

If my death comes as part of the natural process that rips apart all things, or some spectacular accident that won't give me a single second to see what hit me, (Like William Hope Hodgson, pulverized by a bomb) then I would welcome it. If i died from some sickness or old age, after accepting my fate, I would simply lay back and try to tackle the problem like a scientific curiosity.

However, a botched suicide or a violent knife attack on the streets or multiple bullet wounds, all of them leaving ample time for slow, painful death, do worry me.

I also still have some hope that I might gain more wisdom or insight latter on in the road, maybe even some form of "happiness". I still hope for better things to come. Like somebody else here said, I'm very open to the possibilities of actually being wrong in my reasonings.

[Joel]

Suicide is a recurrent existential 'problem' with many aspects. I feel it's important to start with some facts. The world will continue to exist if you die – but instead of containing you as a living agent, it will contain you as a corpse that has to be found and buried. Someone has to phone your friends. Someone has to arrange your funeral. Various people's lives will be fundamentally affected by the timing and nature of your death. It may be the first thing anyone thinks of when your name is mentioned. No-one who cares about you will really get over it. Other suicides may be prompted by it – Sylvia Plath's son committed suicide not long ago. None of this will cease to be real because you are dead. No amount of philosphical abstraction about consciousness will change the reality that you have chosen to make your most enduring contribution to the community's life an act of fatal violence against yourself.

If you are facing a painful death from illness or execution then it's quite justifiable. If not, then you have to consider it as a moral question in terms of human responsibilty. And if your wish to destroy yourself is rooted in self-hatred or self-neglect, maybe you should see that in clinical terms as a problem you need (and deserve) some help to deal with, not in abstract terms as a logical proposition leading to violence. There is no literary or intellectual justification for suicide as an end in itself.

If the world seems to you a terrible place, that's probably because it is – and people who see that need to be doing things about it. What people have made, people can change. If you feel unable to continue because of a traumatic memory or current emotional distress, try and hang in there: your survival may help others at a number of levels. If, on the other hand, you just don't see the point of bothering with an absurd life, let that insight guide you towards a different life or the process of changing the social system you're living under. Camus' great novels The Fall and The Plague track his progress from suicidal despair to political engagement.

Anger, grief and disillusionment are all valuable if you can take them forwards into a changed life, not use them as weapons to destroy yourself. Hang in there. The view from the other side of despair is a lot more meaningful than the absolute failure and blankness you will impose on yourself by choosing to die. The world can't wait to write you off. Why help it?

[Russell Nash]

I think Karnos expressed my own viewpoint.

Allow me to add this example. If someone is trying to jump off the roof of a house or low rise building, would you tell him, "jump and finish with it, life is ####"? or would you try to help him out, even lying? I would choose the second option. I would say exceptionally if a see Madoff on the roof, "jump, f*#@ off", but exceptionally, in any other case, even though I myself don't have an answer, I would lie, as I did the other night. I gave the guy a silly answer that seemed to satisfy him completely.

Quote Originally Posted by Joel

There is no literary or intellectual justification for suicide as an end in itself.

I agree with that too. Suicide doesn't explain why we are here. In fact, it is a way to avoid answering that question. People, like me, are still tempted to exist to get an answer to "why we are here". That's probably why I don't consider myself to be a nihilist, I still want answers, I still want to know. And I could get answers only by living.

Quote Originally Posted by Joel

If the world seems to you a terrible place, that's probably because it is – and people who see that need to be doing things about it. What people have made, people can change. If you feel unable to continue because of a traumatic memory or current emotional distress, try and hang in there: your survival may help others at a number of levels.

Yes!

Quote Originally Posted by Joel

Sylvia Plath's son committed suicide not long ago. None of this will cease to be real because you are dead.

But, this is the biggest problem, Joel. The way one conceives existence. The way I see it, when I was having surgery, in total anesthesia, everything ceased to exist for a few hours, for me. And I do think that if existence is not perceived it doesn't exist.

[Malone]

Sadly,I reckon the most common reason for continuing to live is the totally groundless belief that maybe one day that magical letter,that magical email,that magical person will enter our lives and change everything,and suddenly life will seem wothwhile.Even diehard pessimists,antinatalists,fatalists,Ligottians and so on like myself are prone to this most unlikely of hopes.We wouldn't be here otherwise...

[Jeff Coleman]

Here's something I've been thinking about lately: does a parent have a right to suicide? I think they have given up their right to suicide through the act of having children. Not only because they have a responsibility to their child, but more importantly, because they have given their consent to life itself.