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Old 05-13-2015   #31
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Re: Animals

When People Love Animals Too Much | Thought Catalog
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Old 05-13-2015   #32
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Re: Animals

Quote Originally Posted by Frater_Tsalal View Post
#### it, I don't care what anyone says, I'm still a cat lover. Hell, I even own one of those "page a day" cat calendars.

I will admit to respecting their amorality, adaptability and pragmatism. What was that line Ash said about the xenomorph in Alien? Ah yes: "I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality."
"or delusions of morality."

I think that's one of the main sticking points in the humans vs. other animals debate.

Other animals don't puff themselves up moralistically, they aren't hypocritical.

I guess there's something to be said for purity. One could also make an argument for hypocrisy, if one was so inclined.

(I recall reading an argument in favor of hypocrisy, in fact. I think it was the Australian philosopher Dan Rowden. As I recall, the gist of it was he considered hypocrisy a good thing, in as much as it indicates the hypocrite in question has an inner standard they are transgressing against. In other words, someone who says such-and-such a thing is wrong but does it anyway, at least seems to have a conception of logical consistency they are not following through on. Whereas often there isn't even that. I guess he's speaking of self-conscious hypocrites. And humans are often self-conscious hypocrites. I suppose most other animals we encounter probably aren't hypocrites in that way. I've heard it said that hypocrisy is the worst sin. I'm inclined to reply "Okay, then if I torture and murder people but make a point of saying I am totally ok with torturing and murdering people, I guess that makes me a lesser sinner than some diet advisor who says eating cake is bad but sneaks a piece of cake in every once in a while." "Well, when you put it that way..." ;)

(PS, I'm friends with Frater_Tsalal, whose new book came in the mail yesterday, and he was nice enough to mention me in the acknowledgements yet again. So I'm not trying to be obnoxious here, I just can't help being argumentative sometimes, apparently.)

(PPS, here was qcrisp trying to start a calming iyashi-kei thread, and of course we have to turn it contentious. Good ol' TLO. "Here is a calming thing." "BUT IS IT REALLY CALMING, IS THERE NOT LIKE EVERY OTHER THING IN THIS MALIGNANTLY USELESS UNIVERSE A NIGHTMARE ROILING JUST UNDER THE SURFACE?!" :P)

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Old 05-13-2015   #33
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Re: Animals

Some recent remarks on this thread have reminded me of a line spoken by the "Hunter-Killer Chimp Assassin" Dmitri-9 from Grant Morrison's The Filth comic: "You think all the cats and birds you bury will one day greet you in Heaven? They will eat your gonads and munch upon your crumbling asshole, comrade. They will dine like a hundred crawling czars on the ####-banquet of your sentimental brains."

"The Outsider must find a direction and commit himself to it, not lie moping about the meaninglessness of the world."
-Colin Wilson, Religion and the Rebel
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Old 05-13-2015   #34
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Re: Animals

So maybe I'm not being entirely serious...maybe. But next time one starts feeling so darn unique and superior, just think about it.--Druidic/Montag

I think some may have missed a facetious element in my post...

Yep, I support Animal Rights but I'm a modest meat eater(though certain foods I will not eat--veal, for instance; a dish I loved when young.) And I am fond of quoting Gurdjieff's remark that eating animal flesh is acceptable...but only because in the end we're all eaten by the earth: "reciprocal feeding", as G. calls it. Still, that shouldn't mean inhumane treatment of such "raised for food" animals should be tolerated.

My whole point was just to kick human arrogance in the butt. I've never 'idealized' animals anymore than I idealize human beings. I suspect, however, that many of us have stereotypes that kick in when some speak of the need for humane treatment of conscious creatures other than humans; or argue the possibility that we smugly underrate the degree of consciousness in some animals....
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Old 05-13-2015   #35
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Re: Animals

Quote Originally Posted by Druidic View Post
So maybe I'm not being entirely serious...maybe. But next time one starts feeling so darn unique and superior, just think about it.--Druidic/Montag

I think some may have missed a facetious element in my post...

Yep, I support Animal Rights but I'm a modest meat eater(though certain foods I will not eat--veal, for instance; a dish I loved when young.) And I am fond of quoting Gurdjieff's remark that eating animal flesh is acceptable...but only because in the end we're all eaten by the earth: "reciprocal feeding", as G. calls it. Still, that shouldn't mean inhumane treatment of such "raised for food" animals should be tolerated.

My whole point was just to kick human arrogance in the butt. I've never 'idealized' animals anymore than I idealize human beings. I suspect, however, that many of us have stereotypes that kick in when some speak of the need for humane treatment of conscious creatures other than humans; or argue the possibility that we smugly underrate the degree of consciousness in some animals....
Fair enough.

I noticed the hints of factitiousness in your post.

I suppose I was using your post as jumping off point to put into words some of the things I had been thinking about recently.

Much of my personal interaction with people throughout life (at least close family and friends) has been with those whose views aren't so much "Ain't humanity special?" as "Who do people think they are, thinking they're so special?"

You should see some of the things people I know say about humanity. "Scathing" doesn't even really come close (not condemning them). I'm generally pretty mild, by comparison.

So, like I said, I'm almost inclined to make contrarian arguments in favor of humanity because of this.

Almost.

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Old 05-13-2015   #36
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Re: Animals

Just caught a hornet that had been flying around in this room, and released it outside. For what it's worth, I'm pretty live and let live.
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Old 05-13-2015   #37
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Re: Animals

Way to go, Jeff! My Mother use to catch them with a glass and release them outside; as a kid, I got pretty good at it as well. We lived at a lake and there were always interesting little visitors. ..
Did you ever read Blackwood's "The Egyptian Hornet"? It's a great tale and one I've always been fond of.

When my folks got older, still living at the lake, my Mom's attitude toward living things remained the same. One day she noticed a mouse in their living room. ( I'm sure she fed it lol!) She asked me how to make a no-kill trap. My friend jonpi had the answer: A cardboard box with the inside lined with thick aluminum foil. Put some cheese in it and the mouse has no trouble scampering up the uncovered outside but can't easily climb out because the foil tears...and It worked fine. But you have to check the trap frequently because eventually the critter will get through to good cardboard and escape. Soon I was worried sick she was going to overtax herself. ( You know what they say: If you see one...)
Ah, well, the house was mouse free before summer ended but she had really worked. 200 mice-- she had counted 'em-- captured and released. And, no, they didn't return to the house; possibly because I gave her two small but growing balls of fur at summer's end...
I've always thought that was an amazing feat, but she was that kind of woman. She was in her early Eighties at the time.
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Old 05-13-2015   #38
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Re: Animals

I caught that one with a glass (+ napkin) as well (after draining the dregs of my drink). Not that it was much of a task. It had been buzzing about earlier and I'd forgotten about it, and then as I was smoking by the window and gazing outside, my (probably crossed) eyes shifted focus, and there it was right in front of my face, crawling around on the screen.

Clever idea by your friend to catch the mice. We hardly ever get any here here, but if we do, I'd prefer to catch them without harming them. I'm going to look into no-kill traps.

The last time we had a mouse here, it handily got itself trapped in an empty trash can, and I dropped it off down the street.

"Did you ever read Blackwood's 'The Egyptian Hornet'?"

I'm woefully underread in classic horror, Blackwood included. Will check it out, though. This is a good nudge to read Blackwood, actually. Thanks!
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Old 05-24-2015   #39
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Re: Animals

A few problems that I recognize in previous posts.

1. One of the innumerable objections I have with certain religions is their placement of humanity on a pedestal. Some border on philosophical dominionism. That every creature should be viewed in its utility to humanity is an attitude that is both callous and detestable.

2. Our lack of understanding animals is viewed as their inability to communicate or as a form of inadequacy.

"... but they never move any closer to being human. "

???
So what?

And that animals don't "understand" things like Christianity or crystals speak in their favor, not against.

Also, animals do have complex memories.
Go ahead, cry if you want to. Everyone else does. I just wish I could be there for you to dry your tears.





But I guess it must be conceded that non-human animals lack the elevated sense of style that distinguishes those worthy of life from those fit only for the table. Wearing the same drab garb day in, day out - peacocks and flamingos notwithstanding. They should peruse the latest fashion magazines and go shopping more often. It is difficult to work up much empathy for those who don't have the good taste to buy a snappy new outfit from time to time, something that is all the rage in the glamour rags.


This guy has it goin' on. You can't tell in these photos, but he is wearing golden sneakers. Silly, you say? Well, maybe...








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Old 05-25-2015   #40
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Re: Animals

Quote Originally Posted by With Strength I Burn View Post
Famous horror mangaka, who drew and wrote the acclaimed Uzumaki, is having his one-shot story "Cat Diary: Yon and Mu" published in English by Kodansha Comics around October .

Read panels from right to left.

Here are some pics of it:







As a matter of fact, all cat lovers have had witches as ancestors that could transform into cats, bats, and other creatures, and these witches lived in a town in France. ;)
I'm reminded, though only slightly, of Tanizaki's A Cat, a Man, and Two Women, in which - it has been observed - the title lists the characters in the order of importance.

ôSpecialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved." - Max Weber
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