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Old 03-03-2015   #1
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New Atheism

I used to be more sympathetic to Gray than I am these days. Question worth asking: would it not surely be better if all those in ISIS were atheists?

What scares the new atheists | John Gray | World news | The Guardian
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Old 03-03-2015   #2
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Re: New Atheism

Um, no. No it wouldn't.
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Old 03-03-2015   #3
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Re: New Atheism

Sadly, no.

If people weren't engaging in wholesale slaughter of their fellow man over religion, they would simply find something else.

It is humanity's favorite pasttime.

"The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind." - H. P. Lovecraft
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Old 03-03-2015   #4
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Re: New Atheism

Isis is as much a political movement as it is a religious one. Nothing would change.
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Old 03-03-2015   #5
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Re: New Atheism

I enjoyed the read - I've never heard of Fritz Mauthner until now, but he definitely seems like someone that should have space on my bookshelf...

Fritz_Mauthner Fritz_Mauthner
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Old 03-05-2015   #6
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Re: New Atheism

Recently, during one discussion about Islam Republic movement, one of the interlocutors, when asked how to precisely define ISIS - answered, to paraphrase - Margaret Thatcher said Neoliberalism doesn't have alternative, it took us over thirty years to prove her wrong.

I knew that someday I was gonna die / And I knew before I died Two things would happen to me / That number one I would regret my entire life / And number two I would want to live my life over again.
Hubert Selby Jr.
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Old 03-05-2015   #7
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Re: New Atheism

ASIS?

I don't think monotheism declining would immediately solve issues of tribalism and nationalism, but a change in the way religious people view spirituality would be most welcome.

'It wasn't so much that I was afraid of the place itself, but I was afraid of the creatures who masqueraded as people.'
― Natsuo Kirino, Real World
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Old 03-05-2015   #8
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Re: New Atheism

"How could any increase in scientific knowledge validate values such as human equality and personal autonomy? The source of these values is not science. In fact, as the most widely-read atheist thinker of all time argued, these quintessential liberal values have their origins in monotheism."

Yes. Something similar has been said before - "No Voltaire without Christianity."

"Every Rousseau leads to Donatien Alphonse François" / "Every man for himself and God against all"
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Old 03-05-2015   #9
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Re: New Atheism

For some time now, I've suspected that people have used religion as more of an excuse than as a motivation to conflict. The primary motivation being things like resources, land etc.

Though I could be wrong. It's probably a complicated interaction of beliefs and ulterior motives.

It does get very wearying to wake up and see yet more news about people who seem to think the path to spirituality is to make this world even more of a living hell than it already is.

It just made me speculate, though...

Have there been any religions or cults that specifically endorsed making this world as much of a hell as possible? I mean, in very clear, unambiguous language?

I know about the apocalyptic fundamentalists who want to speed things up so the rapture comes sooner, but I wonder if there were any religious sects that endorsed, with sincere single-minded focus, making this world as horrible as it can possibly get, to achieve transcendence? The reasoning being, perhaps, that as long as this world is to any degree bearable, the temptation to stray from the path to god, the ultimate, and instead dwell in the comforts of this world, is too great.

Seems like an idea for a story, maybe.

The sect of absolute hell annihilation. Through the unbearable pinhole of ultimate disaster we will fly...
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Old 03-05-2015   #10
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Re: New Atheism

Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Coleman View Post
Have there been any religions or cults that specifically endorsed making this world as much of a hell as possible? I mean, in very clear, unambiguous language?
Some individual serial-killers, perhaps. I mean the likes of a Carl Panzam. I suspect even a Pol Pot or Hitler thought the ends justified the means.

Mark S.

"You have no idea how much nastier I'd be if I were not a Catholic. Without supernatural aid I would hardly be a human being." Evelyn Waugh
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