Getting by in an Optimist's World

Lovecraftian,

Nice post--I'm glad to see that not everyone of college age is a mindless dolt, preoccupied with American Idol and the Kardashian sisters! You have a lot of sense and intelligence, especially for a youngster! I wish I could give you an easy answer, but as I'm sure you are starting to figure out, there simply isn't one.

Nevertheless, you don't sound like you need a shrink to me. I've always felt that depression is actually a healthy reaction to the state of today's world. I mean, how can anyone live in a decadent, Reality Show culture such as ours, and NOT be depressed?! Indeed, I think the people who reallly need therapy are the vapid puppets who walk around thinking that THIS is the best of all possible times in the best of all possible worlds.

Unfortunately, I only have fifteen minutes to go at my own, meaningless office drudgery; so I don't have the time to give the detailed response that your post deserves.

For what it's worth, I do find a lot of consolation in Lovecraft's Collected Letters. You've probably already read them, judging from your screen name, but if not, I'd definitely recommend going through everything you can find. He's at least a kindred spirit for the journey.

Of course, if all all else fails, there's always Psilocybin and Ayahuasca, the former fairly easy to attain in the US, and for the latter, there are lots of two week, "tourist retreats" in places like Peru. I wouldn't recommend LSD to a depressive, but personally, I have found some sense of renewal with Psilocybin (i.e., "magic mushrooms"). I'm still waiting to try Ayahuasca, but from what I've read, it sounds like it might be worth the trouble of seeking out. Ligotti is probably right that the ultimate lesson of life is that nothing is worth the trouble, but all the same, it sounds like you still have a lot of time on your hands!

Life is probably an inherent evil, and this is an especially dark time in which we are living. But don't sweat it too much. You still have a few years left before the agony of a nursing home!
 
I have a couple ways of dealing with sensations like that. for the short intense bursts, a day of booze and cartoons tends to alleviate things. it doesn't actually change the fact that what lies ahead is nearly identical to what has gone before, but its a good distraction. I reccomend upbeat, sillier cartoons. Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. Friendship is Magic. that sort of thing.

longer-term, I manage it with hobbies. Collecting things. stamps, coins, knives, beanie babies, musical instruments, out of print Ligotti books, comic books, whatever catches your interest, until it doesn't, then switch to something else. it gives that surplus consciousness something to focus on other than the daily grind that you've got down by rote to the point where your consciousness doesn't factor into it. if you're looking for something like collecting but free, I'd say read Homestuck. 7000+ pages of free webcomic with animations, music, and browser games from time to time.

immersing oneself into a fandom can work too. Bronies, Homestucks, anime fans, trekkies, if nothing else it will provide a different set of conversations to repeat, and can tie in with the collecting.
 
We live in a universe where animals are forced to eat the flesh of other animals to survive. Everything follows. There’s no denying such truth, not for a thoughtful man or woman; though an obsessive concentration on it is probably masochistic. My own coping mechanism is to try and enjoy the small victories in life, and the casual everyday joys that make existence feel worthwhile (Hodgson was good at depicting the ‘casual’ joys; his characters, his sailors, often finding brief respite in a pouch of tobacco!) It's all subjective. In the end we all lose, but still-- why cheat ourselves of small victories? Of course, if depression has produced anhedonia this strategy becomes quite difficult...to say the least. Ligotti, I believe, has mentioned his use of medications to control panic disorder…I would recommend a similar course to anyone suffering from any form of anhedonia, a pretty dangerous state to be in.

Wilhelm Reich once used the phrase “the capacity for happiness”. Without buying into Reich’s works, I always thought his observation interesting--that people (he was referring to personality or character types) possess this capacity to various degrees—and, assuming there is such a thing, I often wondered if it would be genetic, or a composite 'capacity' that could be ‘learned’, at least to some degree. For example, most anyone can learn to play a musical instrument, but some are born with an innate genius for it. There’s certainly been a lot of speculation over whether optimism and pessimism are essential genetic traits. Also this: Does pessimism necessarily dictate an unhappy nature? I'm not sure it does, but it always accompanies one. Friedrich Durrenmatt, a writer whose work has been described as a "chamber of Horrors" by one preeminent European critic, was known to friends as 'the Happy Pessimist" because of his general disposition. (BAD JOKE AHEAD WARNING: How to spot a Ligottian? Three individuals are presented with a glass of water. The first says, “The glass is half-filled.” The second: “The glass is half-empty.” The third: “I don’t know if it’s half-full or half-empty, but I’m pretty sure the water’s been poisoned.”)

Also, in our society we suffer from a surplus of free time, not just consciousness. In Third World Countries, where horrors often abound, people learn to value the smallest thing that might help make life more bearable. Yet, depressingly, a profound observation like this (into a certain aspect of human nature) is inevitably trivialized into Clean your plate, Johnny, there are hungry people in this world.
We are what we are and we do the best we can.
 
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Things to do while alive:

Drugs
Sex
Music
Clothes
Food
Alcohol
Art

If you live in the first world, the boring 8 hour job is not so bad. The factories and gang/tribe fights in the third world are worse, especially if you're a girl. Educated male in the first world reading Ligotti, the boring job should allow you tons of leisure. Start doing drugs and going out.

Also don't worry about other people suffering. The people who are really suffering have your position as their goal. So if you really want to sympathize with them, have fun. Get MDMA, go to a buffet and see how much you can eat, then try painting something.

Also how good are your social skills? Other people are interesting, so spend more time getting to know them. Another good way of getting outside your head.
 
I agree with Justin. I have those bleak thoughts too. But life does provide pleasures.. sex, passion, art, beauty, laughs. They are rare but all the greater for it. Live for those moments. Fight for those moments. Death comes for us all. Enjoy what life offers.
 
Justin Isis said:
Things to do while alive:

Drugs
Sex
Music
Clothes
Food
Alcohol
Art
Click to expand...

I only do three of these things. Well, technically four, since I do wear clothes, but I'm not very interested in clothes (a fortunate lack of interest for someone of my income).

I find that a certain degree of conscious renunciation is more conducive to contentment than forays into hedonism, with all the frustrations and downsides. But mileage varies, I know.

I agree with much of what you say about first world/third world.

Also how good are your social skills?
Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha

Other people are interesting
Click to expand...

WOOhahahahaheeheehee, oh stop, you're killing me!
 
Inspired by the insightful list provided by Mr Isis, here's a quick start guide to having fun:

Greed
Gluttony
Sloth
Wrath
Pride
Lust
Envy

Do the whole list at least once a day, every day. if it makes headlines, it counts every day til it drops out of the news. be creative!
 
gveranon said:
WOOhahahahaheeheehee, oh stop, you're killing me!
Click to expand...

I actually do think a lot of people are more interesting than a surface glance may reveal. If you have the balls to adamantly probe a person for certain thoughts or ideas, you might actually be surprised what you find. I have found that this only works one on one and in more secluded environments, but I do believe there are a surprising amount of people out there who are fairly intelligent but broken and forced to "go with the flow" due to responsibility and or dire circumstances. I have been surprised many times by the dark and dank things that spew forth from the most unsuspecting people given the right circumstances. Some people just can't afford to give them any life, let alone live by them. I find it more sad than anything, really.

I wish I knew how to answer your question in a productive way, TS, but I feel it's pretty much impossible. The only things I have really found these days is to either drown myself into a particular something to the point of disappearance, or just simply have fun with the stupid absurdity of everything. I'm generally OK with these two unless I hit a spell of anhedonia, in which case I drink heavily and listen to the most depressing music I can find. That always seems to get the old emotions a' churnin. Just be glad you're at the top of the food chain, brother. You are afforded some pretty awesome luxuries. Being bored and depressed sure beats the hell out of having some ravenous beast gnawing at your throat while all your homies run for the hills.

Anywho, lots of love your way.
 
Dear Lovecraftian,
I am sorry to hear of your plight and concerned about the way you have taken on so much responsibility for the world's ills. Millions and millions of people suffer every day and, much as I wish that I could help them, there is little that either of us can do. Maybe you will wish to do as I do: when a friend or family member is in need I give unstintingly of my time and money. I can only do so much, but I don't agonize over it. I do it.
You study philosophy, so you should be familiar with the definition of a person as "I am myself and my circumstances." You don't have to accept any philosophy as complete and sacrosanct. Life may be short but it is wide. There is much for you to think about before you start to form your own philosophy. Maybe someday you will stand on Ligotti's shoulders. On the other hand, maybe you will go off in a completely different direction. Your heart will guide you at the right time.
I know that in today's world we all have to worry about little things like getting blown sideways out of a jet plane into space at 35,000 feet and other unpleasantness but it is still better to concentrate on the two things that you can control. These are yourself and your circumstances. If you want to be a philosophy professor then you must change your attitude. The student game will be your life for a long time. However, if you want to quit school, to solve your problems you must move towards something else rather than simply move away from something that you hate. Don't tell me, but what do you love? What will you sacrifice for? What, even if it ends in failure, is worth doing in place of what you are doing now?
Lastly, I recommend the salt water cure. Tears, sweat and or an Ocean voyage. These should help.
Pardon my intrusion
Mr. D.
 
gveranon said:
I find that a certain degree of conscious renunciation is more conducive to contentment than forays into hedonism, with all the frustrations and downsides. But mileage varies, I know.
Click to expand...

I'm aware that I'm playing devil's advocate by posting about improving social skills and enjoying life when there are so many threads about anhedonia, icy bleakness, etc. but I think the OP needs a few realistic options for having a better time. None of these require him to be "philosophically optimist," natalist, pro-life, pro-human, whatever. They're also completely consistent with awareness of death, which I would argue isn't something which "comes for us all" but something which is already here and not that unusual. But then, I grew up with a coroner father, so roach-chewed faces and minced air crash victims are pretty normal for me. I still had to eat my dinner.

OP, if you're feeling clinically depressed then I would suggest seeking treatment; if that doesn't work then try meeting some interesting people whose views and ideas accord with your own. You're not the only one to have felt the way you do, and your mention of hearing the same boring conversations suggests you're starved for companionship. So try to find cool people you can discuss your interests (like philosophy) with.

And if you still feel bad about other people's suffering, you can actually help out - there are people out there building houses and distributing medicines.

Other concrete steps:

1) Well-fitting tailored suit
2) ACTUAL DANCE SKILLS
3) If you haven't already, learn to cook.

DoktorH said:
Inspired by the insightful list provided by Mr Isis, here's a quick start guide to having fun:

Greed
Gluttony
Sloth
Wrath
Pride
Lust
Envy
Click to expand...

Good list, to which I'd add "imagination" - it makes the other seven a lot better.
 
Great post! I really don't have much to add to what has already been said. You indeed described the way things are and indeed there is no way out. Suicide and death solves the problem for the individual but the madness will still continue for everything else and yet convincing everyone not to procreate and end life seems like an impossibility.

I really don't care about anything anymore. Give me my dose of Nembutal and I'll drift off to my eternal sleep with a smile on my face.
 
Cnev said:
gveranon said:
WOOhahahahaheeheehee, oh stop, you're killing me!
Click to expand...

I actually do think a lot of people are more interesting than a surface glance may reveal. If you have the balls to adamantly probe a person for certain thoughts or ideas, you might actually be surprised what you find. I have found that this only works one on one and in more secluded environments, but I do believe there are a surprising amount of people out there who are fairly intelligent but broken and forced to "go with the flow" due to responsibility and or dire circumstances. I have been surprised many times by the dark and dank things that spew forth from the most unsuspecting people given the right circumstances. Some people just can't afford to give them any life, let alone live by them. I find it more sad than anything, really.
Click to expand...

I tend to avoid adamantly probing (!) people in this way, partly because I dislike being adamantly probed myself. Nothing puts me off faster than someone aggressively and insistently deciding they're going to "get to know" me. This raises my defenses and my hackles. So I don't pursue people in this way.

Of course, you are right that people are more than they appear on the surface, are socially conditioned, and often have depths and thoughtfulness that you might not suspect at first. So I'll concede that they are interesting in theory. But how many are really all that interesting in practice?

Also, I was joking just a little bit in my previous post.
 
I cannot believe that you are still trapped on your soul-destroying academic gravy-train. Jump off now! - before you become a completely inauthentic person. The feeling of inauthenticity (as much as 'too much consciousness') is dragging you further down than you need to go. Brightening a beggar's day could be a good start.

- from a man who jumped off the train (I too read Philosophy, but walked out of my final exams [special subject: Schopenhauer] after writing an anti-academic rant, and never returned to university) - and never suffered the humiliation of paid employment.
 
gveranon said:
Other people are interesting
Click to expand...
WOOhahahahaheeheehee, oh stop, you're killing me!
Click to expand...

In support of gveranon's sardonic laughter, I offer the following exchange from Seinfeld as representative of humanity at large [present company excluded]:

Elaine: Perhaps there's more to Newman than meets the eye.
Jerry: No. There's less.
 
Best thing is death and to kill oneself. The rest of the suggestions, truly are MUSH.

Give me a few million dollars and I might engage in some of the things mentioned here to dull the pain of this futile existence, but if you're suggesting to do all this shit within the confines of WORK and claim that we're lucky that we have leisure time AND that apparently we have it in abundance then you truly are out of whack with reality.

A working man is truly fucked without a damn respite in sight. A wealthy man could drink and party all life until death to make the pain less painful... that's about it.

Its all futile mush though nevertheless.
 
Justin Isis said:
Things to do while alive:

Drugs
Sex
Music
Clothes
Food
Alcohol
Art

If you live in the first world, the boring 8 hour job is not so bad. The factories and gang/tribe fights in the third world are worse, especially if you're a girl. Educated male in the first world reading Ligotti, the boring job should allow you tons of leisure. Start doing drugs and going out.

Also don't worry about other people suffering. The people who are really suffering have your position as their goal. So if you really want to sympathize with them, have fun. Get MDMA, go to a buffet and see how much you can eat, then try painting something.

Also how good are your social skills? Other people are interesting, so spend more time getting to know them. Another good way of getting outside your head.
Click to expand...

Start doing drugs? I wouldn't recommend it. Sure, if you want even more problems... The few times I've taken buprenorphine were *way* too pleasant, so I knew I had to stop. I feel like shit most of the time, so for now it's a bit of booze and tranquilizers that make living bearable.
 
daily set of activities consists of dragging oneself out of bed, trundling through traffic to arrive at a despised place of work, putting in 8 hours or so of half-assed labor (staring at the clock the whole time), and then going back home to watch virtual people live non-real, inconsequential lives on a colorful screen while running through a conversation(s)—if one is lucky—with a family member(s).
Click to expand...

Going back to the original post in the thread, I think if your regular routine isn't doing it for you, change your routine. it doesn't have to be a drastic, scorched-earth, skip town and change your name thing. start with easy changes. Change your eating habits. talk to different people. go bowling. even if the first change you pick doesn't work out, it will help you find changes you DO like by process of elimination.
 
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