notes

qcrisp

Grimscribe
I've been working on a new piece recently, and just started reading The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, and somehow my responses to the work have got incorporated in the piece I'm writing. I may copy them out here later, or not. It's a work in progress, so I may just hate it too much to post any of it. Or I might post just a little bit of my response, rather than the whole thing. Not that it really matters. Just felt like saying that I'd starting reading, really. Er... well, I suppose that's all for now.

No, I'll just add that, in a way, I feel responses are superfluous, which may decide me against posting my response.
 
I'll just add that, in a way, I feel responses are superfluous

I, too, had to fight against that feeling tooth, nail and hoof - but my inexorable need to respond overcame any fears of superfluity. Hindsight will either prove me wrong or righteous.
des
 
I'll just add that, in a way, I feel responses are superfluous

I, too, had to fight against that feeling tooth, nail and hoof - but my inexorable need to respond overcame any fears of superfluity. Hindsight will either prove me wrong or righteous.
des

Well, I too, might add something at some point. At the moment, wishing to be brief, I shall limit myself to a quote from a poem by Larkin that came to mind, something like this:

"... life is slow dying, and saying so to some means nothing
Others, it leaves nothing to be said."
 
Well, I've finally decided to write here the extract that I mentioned, from the last piece of min to be finished in first draft. The piece has the working title of A Paris Notebook. It's in diary form, and it's really quite personal. I don't know if it's publishable, or if I even want to publish it, though I wrote it with some compulsion and enthusiasm. I hesitated before transcribing here the section dealing with The Conspiracy Against the Human Race for a number of reasons. I think out of context it may not come across exactly as I mean it. Also, I haven't finished reading CATHR, and I don't know if my responses are yet mature. I am basically not someone who likes to peddle opinions as certainties. Nonetheless, I suppose I did start this thread, so I would feel a bit lame not really saying anything in it. So, without further ado, here is the extract in question:

We have arrived at an age, it seems, when reasons not to kill yourself are harder and harder to come by. I feel that we, and particularly I, have somehow 'ended up' here -- 'ended up' is certainly the phrase. Recently I received an e-mail from Thomas Ligotti Online telling me that Ligotti's latest work, The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, a long philosophical treatise on why human life is inexcusably horrible, was available for free download for a limited period. Naturally, I leapt at the chance to read it.

Having read a number of portions of the text in a kind of trance of will-crushing dread, I find that it deals with many of the themes that have occupied me in this notebook, although the conclusions drawn -- not that I have read the final conclusion, which Ligotti tells us at the beginning is, anyway, foregone -- are slightly at variance with my own.

Inasmuch as this is what universal consciousness has washed up on the shore of my consciousness, it is, however, mine. I feel that it is what we have all come to, where we have all 'ended up'.

The treatise runs to upwards of a hundred pages. I will attempt a digest of what I have read here.

For Ligotti, consciousness, and specifically human consciousness, is an aberration in creation, and an obscenity. We are the only animals who are aware that we are alive and that we will die. As he has stated elsewhere, "It's a damn shame that intelligent life ever evolved in the first place." It is imperative for human beings, against all evidence and against all odds, to pretend that there is some meaning to this state of affairs -- the emergence of their aberrant consciousness and the animal mortality of which it makes them aware -- if they wish to survive. However, survival only means further suffering, which is dealt with by further lies about there being some meaning to life. Eventually the entire human race will end, anyway, and eternity will continue ever away from the blip of our existence, so any kind of meaning or immortality stops there. Would it not be better, at least, to reduce the needless suffering by ceasing to procreate?

This, to me, is the only logical and viable atheist position. It is atheism's logical conclusion. I admire Ligotti's thoroughness in taking such a position and fleshing it out. As far as I have read it, the essay seems to leave us with three options from which to choose:
a) lies
b) insanity
c) voluntary extinction
There is some overlap between a and b, if they are not entirely identical. Although they might facilitate our further survival, neither of them makes us proof against pain, and, of course, neither of them will ever bring us final satisfaction.

The text of the essay is impeccably well-written. This is not a question of mere style. Every word seems to fall with due gravitas into its natural place, like water finding its level, giving the impression of something, on its own terms, indisputable. The author has carried this work with him for a long time. This is not academic. It feels like the summation of a life. I do not doubt that this is a serious and considerable work, though I've no idea how the academic cliques might receive it. I am not an academic. I am, however, a bit of a flibbertigibbet. Anything I write in a notebook like this is bound to be a little flighty and flimsy and I do not hope to give the work the response it deserves. I only think that it is most definitely THERE, and cannot be ignored.

There is nothing I can put into words of which I am certain, and this effectively means that I am not an atheist, if for no other reason than that atheism is just another word. When you are not an atheist, the three options previously mentioned begin to look different and change. In particular, the first option may be replaced by others. Some may even be creative enough to come up with more than three options. In my own case, I have never been entirely able to persuade myself that reasons for living are either lies or truth. It seems to me that there may indeed be a meaning to existence. Why? Why not? I mean, why shouldn't there be? Oh, nothing to do with words, of course. I noticed an interesting phrase in Ligotti's essay, in quotation marks. Even most intellectual writers, he says, fall short of complete nihilism and back on "what the heart knows". I can't say I've noticed a great deal of this among intellectuals myself, but it's certainly something that is true of me. At least, the phrase means something to me, however it was intended.

Anyway, there may be a meaning to life, and if so, it is my task as a writer to discover it. Not that I can express it directly. It would have to exist between the lines. I'm entirely aware of how trite and naive that sounds, but there it is. I won't dress it up or down.

As I said, I am certain of nothing I can put into words, but for me the dilemma of existence goes something like this: If evil exists in the world, and it certainly does, then the entire universe must be evil, because a benevolent universe could not possibly support evil. Therefore the universe, if it falls below perfection at any point, and it has, must be evil. So, let's say the universe is evil. In that case, how is it that I am able to experience anything as good at all -- the beautiful things I see, the people who seem always to have had a place in my heart. Where do these things come from in a universe that is entirely evil? You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, as they say, and however many times you add evil to evil, it still equals evil. Good cannot spring up ex nihilo, and therefore can only come from a universe that is entirely good (one that is only slightly good is, as we have seen, already entirely evil). Therefore the universe is entirely good. But if so, where does evil come from? Etcetera.

You could say, theologically, or philosophically speaking, that I swing both ways. It has really cost me more than I can ever explain, and continues to do so.

For me, anyway, the jury is still out. Until a verdict is returned, a unanimous verdict, you might say, I believe it is best to err on the side of caution and refrain from procreation.

Ironically, if all were to adopt such a policy, it would probably preclude any verdict ever being returned, anyway.
 
i enjoyed your post, qcrisp. thanks.

i noticed one thing that stuck out at me: why does the universe have to be perceived as good or evil? isn't that all ego-centric and relative? without human beings to observe it, the universe can be neither good nor evil... it just is.

but if we did try to see the universe in human and dualistic terms, what would be our definition of good and evil? pleasure and pain? that reminds me of something Mel Brooks said, "Comedy is when you fall down an elevator shaft and die; tragedy is when i get a small cut on my finger." it all depends on who's looking at what.

have you ever seen the British movie, Naked? it's very good and quite nihilistic. the protagonist of the film makes a similar case... that if the universe was good, then evil couldn't exist. which means that god is evil. it's more involved than that, but that's the gist.

i haven't had the pleasure of reading TCATHR yet because i'm waiting for it in hardcover, but i'll share my own personal philosophy here in the briefest of terms:

existence, taken in an ordinary way, is unsatisfying... which is why certain individuals need to find extraordinary means for escape... transcendence.


Darrick
 
existence, taken in an ordinary way, is unsatisfying... which is why certain individuals need to find extraordinary means for escape... transcendence.
darrick, your worldview is succinct. John Lennon had his notion of "whatever gets you through the night." Why not a personal transcendence? Or personal self-delusion (to simplify a concept conveyed in CATHR)? My personal transcendence or self-delusion is rooted in my refusal to take anything which exists too seriously. I consciously make an attempt to vault over the crapola straight into the absurdity of the situation. This is why my content here at TLO is often riddled with the bullets of a twisted sense of humor. If I lacked this self-delusion, I would have accidentally on purpose hit my OFF switch long ago.

Making it through tonight,
Phil
 
I consciously make an attempt to vault over the crapola straight into the absurdity of the situation

I'm like that, too, Phil.

As to Q's point that the world is all evil if it is partly evil, I'd say the world's probably a flawed masterpiece. And to be a true masterpiece one needs an optimum of flawing.


Also, I haven't finished reading CATHR, and I don't know if my responses are yet mature.

I agree with that. That's why my review was on the hoof with the promise of a second review at some stage. Whether one should review it at all remains a moot point. If someone convinces me, I shall remove my review from view! Or is that me being subsumed by absurd self-delusion again?

des
 
"but if we did try to see the universe in human and dualistic terms, what would be our definition of good and evil? pleasure and pain?"

This is a good question, and probably better than any answer I can give to it. I suppose I would say, however, that since the discussion is about whether or not humans should continue to exist, evil must be viewed in terms of human experience. I suppose you could call it pleasure and pain, although I don't think it's that simple. Things get a bit complicated here because there are possibly two different kinds of dualism at work in this discussion. One is, as you have pointed out, good and evil. The other is subject and object. To dismiss the former kind of dualism, the latter is often used. Objectively, in the 'real' world, our subjective human experience means nothing. To me, however, and to most humans, I suspect, an 'objective' universe is already pretty much evil. That is precisely what our experience of evil is - that there is a real, objective universe out there that in some way is uncaring and, through 'nature' or through other human beings, uses us as pawns in some blind game of horror.

I suppose what I am therefore saying is that, maybe, just maybe, any experience of good in the universe is actually always an intimation that there is no objective "out there", that everything is "what the heart knows". An experience of evil is the falling away from such knowledge and believing that there is some objective 'out there' that is fucking you around in some way. Ligotti's work is interesting in that it seems often to suggest there is no objective out there, that it's all a vast illusion (see Mystics of Meulenberg, Cocoons and so on), but other times seems to insist on the subjective/objective divide as the focus of the horror of existence. For instance, the very idea of consciousness as an aberrance is based on this divide. There is animal (objective) and consciousness (subjective), and it's horrible to have the one trapped inside the other.

Well, I hope that forms some sort of answer to your question.

I haven't seen the film you mention. I shall have to look out for it.

Unfortunately my reading of The Conspiracy Against the Human Race is very slow at the moment, because my eyes are bad, I can't read much off the screen, and my printer is broken.

In solid book form, however, I am reading The Razor's Edge by Somerset Maugham at the moment. Coincidentally, it deals with some similar themes about good and evil and so on. I'm enjoying it immensely and recommend it.
 
Why not a personal transcendence? Or personal self-delusion (to simplify a concept conveyed in CATHR)?
indeed, i think any kind of authentic transcendence has to be a personal one. a generic, catch-all transcendence would be absurd and probably the antithesis of transcendence. i believe truth is always hidden, that's part of what makes the universe "evil".

rather than self-delusion, why not call it self-reality? each human being creates their own paradigm. i firmly believe this too.

That is precisely what our experience of evil is - that there is a real, objective universe out there that in some way is uncaring and, through 'nature' or through other human beings, uses us as pawns in some blind game of horror.
i agree. and if we can say the definition of evil is hostile to mankind, then let us call the universe exactly that... evil.

Ligotti's work is interesting in that it seems often to suggest there is no objective out there, that it's all a vast illusion (see Mystics of Meulenberg, Cocoons and so on), but other times seems to insist on the subjective/objective divide as the focus of the horror of existence. For instance, the very idea of consciousness as an aberrance is based on this divide. There is animal (objective) and consciousness (subjective), and it's horrible to have the one trapped inside the other.
i've picked up on that without having it pinned down so well. thanks for that. it is a frightening notion. i feel the horror too, but mine is coupled with three strong doses of Nietzsche's Will to Power. so instead of lamenting my condition, i can only struggle to conquer it... knowing that i shall eventually succeed.

i wish we had this sort of conversation/debate on my forum. (and yes, this is a thinly veiled plug for the Cult of Cthulhu forum... see my sig) this level of philsophical examination is seriously lacking over there.

D
 
I thought I would inject myself into this particular thread because I find it exemplary of what I hoped to see when Dr. Bantham afforded me the benefit of putting CATHR on TLO. By this I mean that it's my good fortune to witness how ideas that have been knocking around in my head for a long time are eliciting a variety of viewpoints from thoughtful minds who share many of my concerns, although they may not perceive them in the same way as I do or agree with them in the least. A good example is what someone wrote about expressions of pessimistic cast prompting "questions about one's sanity, rationality, and intelligence." I'm absolutely uninterested in being defensive about such comments or in arguing points of interpretation about CATHR. I just appreciate that anyone has taken the trouble to read it, or at least read in it, and say what they think about what they've read. It took me a few years to finish this book--it's actually longer than it seems in the online presentation or the PDF file--and I've continued to expand, refine, and polish it since its appearance on TLO. Therefore, I've had the advantage of pondering its ideas for quite a while. And now I have the advantage of having this document contemplated and challenged in whole or in part. For anyone to swallow whole hog what I've had to say in CATHR, they would really have to be so like me that we would practically be indistinguishable in our view of life, the universe, and everything. I do think that some people who read CATHR will be that like-minded in their views. In fact, I've received such reactions in private correspondence. But naturally most people will not be so like-minded. With the possible exception of Zapffe, I myself am not totally in tune with everything that the authors I cite and celebrate. Differences among people's minds is of course one of the themes of CATHR. Okay, I've got to wrap up this post before I time out and lose it. Thanks again to you all.

TL
 
'A good example is what someone wrote about expressions of pessimistic cast prompting "questions about one's sanity, rationality, and intelligence."'

That's certainly long been a worry for me. Something in CATHR and in this discussion cuts to the heart of that for me, which may be why I hesistated in posting responses.

Perhaps I could take this opportunity to thank you for making the work available here for free. I hope that it widely read.
 
I too appreciate the free online presentation of CATHR. I identify with the works of both Cioran and U.G., and especially Zapffe. In fact, I discovered CATHR on TLO by searching the web for any new material about Zapffe. At any rate, I have now read CATHR in its entirity, and I do not hesitate to name it among my favorite works of nonfiction. It is a very rare treat to find anyone who can convey so similar views to my own, not to mention someone who can discuss them far more articulately than I can.

I have Schizoid Personality Disorder, meaning I consider myself an observer of life rather than a participant. It also means I am very introverted, and I prefer my "inner world" to the "social world" to the extent that I become sluggish and indifferent to this "social world." I think this disposition (or "disorder") facilitates the agreement with pessimistic philosophy. Whenever I see my peers act out of optimism, I feel an odd sense of gratitude that I can no longer act similarly. As Cioran himself says, "A relief bordering on orgasm at the notion that one will never again embrace a cause, any cause..."

This indifference has led me to live passively. I have lived the first 21 years of my life as a parasite off my mother in the USA, and now she is giving up on me. I have a vague plan of spending my money on a one-way ticket to Europe, to live as a tramp/bum/parasite - whatever comes along. I could kill myself, but just knowing that I have the power to do so is good enough for me. I am too pessimistic and indolent to work towards any sort of optimistic goal, and I hypothesize that this lifestyle of passivity and rejection of society is as good as any lifestyle, but without the delusional hope and futile effort.

I did not intend to make this post an autobiographical note, but perhaps this response shows how deeply CATHR and some of its cited works speak to me.
 
Thank you for your comments on CATHR. I asked Dr. Bantham, the administrator of TLO, to send an announcement of the book's appearance on this site to a SPD newsgoup. That you found it by doing a search on Zapffe rather than through one of these newsgroups is very gratifying. Even more so is the fact that you refer to yourself as having a "disposition" and put the word "disorder" in quotes. According to the psychiatric literature, SP's aren't supposed to be self-reflective or have an "inner life." I never believed that, even though SPD, along with other "conditions," is situated in psych studies along a spectrum of personality types of a more malignant nature. But doesn't everyone belong somewhere along a characterological spectrum, and one that often manifests itself malignantly? That you wrote your reply at all, and that it's written with such clarity, also goes against the SP profile. I'm not saying that you're not a true, even a classic, SP. I know that you are. But studies of SPD are confusing because so few SP's present themselves to mental health professionals for a "cure," given that those who are "pessimistic and indolent" cannot answer in the positive to the last question on every psych exam: "Does this condition cause you significant problems in your life." Everyone has a "condition" that causes them significant problems in their lives--that's what it is to be human. But having a schizoid disposition is not a disease or disorder like depression or, more horribly, panic-anxiety disorder. I couldn't agree more with your statement that a "lifestyle of passivity and rejection of society is as good as any lifestyle," although I think you'd agree on reflection that we're all subject to "delusion hope and futile effort." It's just that the hope and effort of some is more delusional and unwittingly futile than others. Again, thanks for interrupting your indolence to comment on CATHR. There are some things, aren't there, that motivate SP's to express themselves.

TL
 
I feel a strange desire to play "In The Court of the Crimson King"...

Mark S.
 
The literature on SPD is indeed confusing. The vagueness of the word “introspection” might be a source of the confusion. When I say I introspect, I do not mean that I reflect emotionally. However, I do reflect on things in an objective, “left-brained” manner. The sort of introspection that leads me to Zapffe and CATHR is my attempt at objective self-analysis. This self-analysis might falsely appear to be subjective emotional thinking.

I do agree that we're all subject to "delusional hope and futile effort.” I also agree that hope and effort vary in the degree of their futility. Since my inner world does not exist unless I create it, I mean everything to this inner world, despite meaning nothing to the physical world. It only seems logical to me that I prefer the inner world. One of my favorite forms of distraction (in the Zapffe sense) is visualizing and analyzing interactions between parts of an imaginary system. Unlike the physical world, I have complete control of my imagination. With only mental effort, I can realize any possible hopes within my imaginary world, a world of logical systems and perfect structures. To allude to CATHR, my mental world is one of polyhedrons, rather than “roughly pyramidal conglomeration of bricks.”

Zapffe essentially attributes the tragedy of humanity to the schism (a word interestingly close to schizoid, no?) between the inner and outer worlds. The active participants in society attempt to apply the laws of their inner world to the outer world. As a passive observer of society, I merely draw information from the physical world to enhance my inner world. Just like anyone else, I restrain my consciousness for the sake of sanity. Personally, perhaps due to SPD, limiting my hopes and efforts to my inner world is the most effective solution. My hopes cease to be delusional and my efforts are no longer futile when I apply them to the inner world of which I am God.

As you can see, I analyze Zapffe’s tragedy frequently, and I have not collapsed from anguish. By prioritizing my inner world ahead of all else, I can mechanically analyze my lack of meaning to the natural world without losing my mind. The observer is never relevant to what he observes, and by treating the universe as the object of my observation, I effectively stifle any desire to have meaning. I know I mean nothing to the outside world, and I remain completely pessimistic about this world. However, thanks to my “observer disorder,” this knowledge and pessimism does not cause me excessive distress. Include me in the group that does not seek a “cure.”

By the way, I consider these expressions as a continuation, rather than an interruption, of my indolence. I am outwardly unproductive, but very active in the mind. Although I am sluggish, I do not resist activity if it helps fuel my inner world. I appreciate your response, and again, the online presentation of CATHR.
 
You wrote a couple of things that resonated with me very much. Your distinction between what I would call cerebral introspection and "subjective emotional thinking" is one that I think is definitive to an individual's perception of the world. Some emotion has to be present in a person or the result would be a state of thorough anhedonia, which essentially would mean being catatonic, since without any emotion all things become of equal value, which is to say, they all become valueless: there is no motive to do one over another or think one thing over another, even to the point of losing motive to emerge from anhedonia itself, which in its extreme form is intensely painful. All one's action and thought is then determined solely by outside forces. One the other hand, even a normal degree of emotion colors one's thinking and determines one's actions to a fairly high level of delusion. You may be delusionally "moved" to believe that you have more control over yourself than you can possibly have. You make resolutions and decisions in one state of emotion that you can't follow through on once you shift to a different emotional state. And normal people do this all the time when emotion colors their thought, which is the case in almost all matters--for example, matters of what would be called taste. These matters make the mind into their slave, which is not a terrible thing in many circumstances but ultimately accounts for the world in which we live. In my own case, I can say that my pessimistic outlook is a matter of cerebral introspection and not "emotional thinking." No matter how I felt on an emotional level, I would still say, "It would be better not to be born." That is a constant which could only change should I become the victim of a brain tumor or something of the sort that would derange my thought processes. I'll write further on the subject of "meaning" in a later post.
 
This is a continuation of the above reply to turnip. (And could I have used the word "matter(s)" in that reply?)

Regarding your statement that "we're all subject to delsuional hope and effort"--including SP's, pessimists, and everyone else who hasn't totally bailed out on existence--I have to agree. But to repeat a point I made in CATHR, the degree of hope warranted and the futility of a given effort operates only within a limited framework ("I'm going to fix my lawnmower" is something one can reasonably hope will be accomplished and, barring a heart attack or something of that sort, the effort very probably won't be futile within the framework of getting your lawn cut. But the larger the framework--"I'm hoping to live a long and happy life and am working toward that goal each day"-- the less reasonable hope and effort become. Within a global framework--"I have every hope that one day humanity will one day reach perfection (according to the ideals of 18th century Enlightenment thinkers) and will work to make the world a better place than I found it"--hope and effort approach utter futility. And once one tries to dream beyond a limited framework, hope and effort leave the picture altogether because they have no basis whatever: "Human life has a meaning beyond itself and life is worthwhile." As you say, Zapffe's tragic vision of human life was conceived on the impossibility of reconciling inner (emotion-based) hope and effort with anything that is evident or compelling in the outer world. Camus makes the same point in his concept of the absurd with respect to human existence, but somehow he resolved that the meaningless and lack of worth of both our individual and collective lives do not require giving up on rolling that rock up and down the hill along with Sisyphus. This is an emotion-based resolution that serves to justify existence simply because that's what Camus obviously desired, which is understandable and very common but is irrational unto madness. (More to come for fear that I'll time out and lose my reply.)
 
PART III to turnip,

I had the same non-negative reaction to Zapffe, and to every other pessimist writer I've read. Quite the opposite, in fact. I know that people are supposed to be thrown into depths of despair, fits of foundationlessness, and paroxysms of panic when they read some writer who deals with "The Void." There are tons of books written on the subject that speak of nihilism as if it were the plague, and I just can't believe that very many people since the 19th century find anything to be bothered about when someone tells them their lives are floating on a raft of nothingness. To tell you the truth, I don't know what The Void is supposed to be. Or The Abyss. Most of those who write about such things are supposed to be offering consolation to those who are perturbed about the purposeless nature of human life and attempt to explain away anyone who spreads this kind of knowledge. Even when I was a child and believed in God, I never had a sense that God gave any meaning to my life. He and Son were total abstractions to me. Non-entities from the words go, even though I obsessively prayed because I didn't want to go to hell, which was very real to me. But to me prayer was just a formula for staying out of hell, incantations spoken or thought. Real voodoo. The world is just there and that's that. I've never felt the need to indulge in what Zapffe calls "isolation." That said, I have felt that my life would have been undermined by the absence of "distraction," (in many forms), "anchoring" (in the sense that things like art had value), and "sublimation" (in my writing). (To be continued in next reply. I don't know how to save or copy these posts, even though Dr. Bantham explained it to me today.)
 
Second part of PART III (I think I screwed up and put the first part of PART III above. I don't know where this part is going to appear.)

So I've been as dependent on distraction, anchoring, and sublimation as much as anyone. There would have been a void in my life without these things. (But I don't think it would have been THE VOID or THE ABYSS because I've never been dependent on a cosmic and eternal meaning in my life, only on petty pleasures and accomplishments.) And I think I could have whittled my dependency on these three things down to "distraction" if I could have continued to take drugs. Now that I think about it, I already have done away with anchoring and sublimation, since I no longer believe in art and I don't need to write anymore because I've already written. It's not the absence of these things that's terrible--it's the need for them, which is an absolute horror. Before I started publishing fiction, I could barely stand to live with myself. This is what Zapffe makes clear, and it's the reason why we can't stand to be what we are: creatures who need some kind of meaning, achievement, and distraction in their lives. Anyone who can do without them is living the ideal life in my view. This is why I was tried to be a Buddhist for so long: to attain the state in which nothing means nothing without being bothered by this fact. I thought it would be the ultimate to internalize that. But Buddhists have the same dependence on achieving that "nothing means nothing" state, so they're no better off than the rest of us. From my perspective, you, turnip, seem to come as close to knowing the "nothing means nothing" and not giving a damn that this is the case. You're not a junkie for anything. You're right where the Buddhist wants to be in his everyday life--in a state midway between any great pleasure or pain. Being anhedonic to a tolerable extent would be my way of accounting for your condition, although you don't sound so anhedonic that you're in pain or to be someone who "knows what their missing" by ever having experienced intense pleasure. My reading of archived posts in alt.schizoid seems to confirm this observation, even if there are very few SP's in these newsgroups, possibly because you don't need the kind of pleasure, consolation, etc. that they bring to those who generally participate in these forums. (Unfortunately, there is no forum for pessimists, almost for obvious reasons, and philosophy newsgroups don't concern themselves with pessimism.) I envy you, or least I covet my conception of what you are.


TL
 
Defining anhedonia as the inability to experience pleasure, I am simply not anhedonic. I think you are correct in saying complete anhedonia would result in catatonia. What chiefly prevents me from being an active and orderly member of society is amotivation. I experience pleasures, but these pleasures rarely inspire me to effortfully pursue them, so I can only conclude that I do not experience pleasure as intensely as others. I cannot say how hunger will motivate me, as I have not yet lived without effortless access to food.

In regards to your lawnmower analogy, I could not motivate myself to even fix the lawnmower. Fixing the lawnmower helps achieve a goal of cutting a lawn, and if cutting a lawn brought me pleasure, I would probably attempt to fix the machine. But I do not enjoy mowing the lawn, and it does not work towards a finite end. Mowing the lawn, in my eyes, is a task equivalent to one lap of Sisyphus’ punishment. If I were Sisyphus, I would just sit against the rock and retreat to my imagination. This lack of interest in anything I won’t enjoy “right now,” or in the very finite future, often comes across as short-sightedness. Quite the opposite, I look into the future, see my death, and return to the short-term.

You say we can’t stand to be creatures that need “meaning, achievement, and distraction.” Although I need neither meaning nor achievement, I do in fact have an uncontrollable desire for distraction. This is not distraction from Zapffe’s problem, as thinking in my detached way about his problem is actually a form of entertainment for me, but distraction from a lack of mental stimulation. Fortunately, I can entertain myself within the "limited framework" (I like this term you used) of short-term gratification. I think this limited framework protects me from the greatest frustrations of the human condition.

By writing CATHR, such a brilliant work of pessimism, you demonstrate a rare alertness to the human tragedy in spite of any hopeful emotions. Sublimation is the least popular defense mechanism because it is the only one to require such persistent pessimistic awareness. While you might still have delusional hopes, you say you are constantly aware that they are delusional. By dumb luck, SP's might be able to diminish the human horror, but perhaps your awareness keeps you from the further horror of a harsh “fall to earth.” At any rate, I imagine that other SP’s will thoroughly enjoy CATHR, as I have.


P.S. As for Zapffe’s isolation, I think distraction is only the most effective form of isolation. By distracting yourself from despair, I think you are also isolating yourself from it. Maybe I do not exactly understand the distinction, or perhaps Zapffe distinguishes isolation from distraction more clearly in the untranslated Om det Tragiske.
 
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