(Why) Have we stopped reading fiction ?

I'm actually more interested in what new/contemporary authors people don't like.

I hate basically everything so there's not much point being specific. Except Colin Insole and Damian, they are good.

In the New New Weird, THE NOTHING! is so ambiguous that it should not even be implied - it should utterly disappear from the story, leaving behind only the horror contained in otherwise trivial occurrences and mundane objects.

Isn't this "Quiet Horror"? Pretty sure I've seen that term mentioned on Facebook. I wonder what the most extreme evolution of this style would be and exactly how quiet it could become before it's no longer horror? Presumably a story with a plot like "an old lady thinks something mildly unpleasant but tactfully keeps it to herself"?
 
I feel like the classic horror authors could also be more harshly criticized. Sometimes they are but I think that a lot of us have bought into the idea of the Old Masters at a time in our lives when we were less critical and more willing to overlook certain flaws that we grown accustomed to (film fans are especially guilty), and new authors with a different set of flaws are less likely to get that benefit.
 
I hate basically everything so there's not much point being specific. Except Colin Insole and Damian, they are good.

So you hate the writing of most of your Goodreads buddies?

Hate is maybe too strong a word...I am not terribly interested in most writing. One of my best friends in real life is a bodybuilder who writes Warhammer tie-in novels and apparently cleans up decent cash from it. We are really close pals but have very little interest in each other's writing. Take from that what you will.

Best form of criticism is just...write your own books!!!
 
I'm surprised more people aren't suggesting current exciting authors now because I know there are enough of you around who keep up.

It's very tempting, but considering my own position it might be considered spamming.

I would assume all the Chomu writers?

Yes, that's right.

I actually have quite strong feelings about this and for all kinds of reasons I don't generally express them. I have given years of my life to the conjunction of head and brick wall that is the attempt to get people to be open-minded about reading. I will continue to do so.

Chomu started a few years back, of course, and though we debuted some writers, most of them were already published. However, with one exception, they are all still alive.

In terms of the exception, who I recently mentioned here at TLO, soon after his death I happened to step into a branch of Waterstones and I found myself overcome with an unutterable rage. There are certain things I know I'll never be able to communicate.
 
I feel like the classic horror authors could also be more harshly criticized.

That whole epoch of Machen et al is my favourite period of this type of fiction, but I always try to be realistic in my appraisal. Machen and de la Mare only wrote relatively few horror stories each, and others were flawed stylists.

People put these writers on pedestals and in doing so have quite shallow perceptions of them. I got into a huge argument the other day with somebody about Machen, and it took 20 comments before they admitted they had only read The Great God Pan, which is an amazing story, but it isn't representative of Machen's fiction. His 'faun period', as I like to call it, only lasted a few years, so it's hard to compare him to prolific horror writers who consistently published stories for decades.
 
I've only read Joel Lane's The Terrible Changes and This Spectacular Darkness (a collection of essays), but from that alone I'd rank him far above any of the recent New Weird I've encountered. Rhys Hughes, Mark Valentine (his non-fiction in particular), Rebecca Lloyd, Adam S. Cantwell, and George Berguno are among the few contemporary authors that keep up my interest. I'm only silent on Quentin Crisp because I've yet to read his work, and that's only because my bilbliophilia is forcing me to hold out until I can afford Out There and Erith later this year.

Isn't this "Quiet Horror"? Pretty sure I've seen that term mentioned on Facebook. I wonder what the most extreme evolution of this style would be and exactly how quiet it could become before it's no longer horror? Presumably a story with a plot like "an old lady thinks something mildly unpleasant but tactfully keeps it to herself"?

I'm not sure - I suspect the style arose from the relative popularity of Object Oriented Philosophy within the Weird Fiction community. There's also not much more of an extreme left when a critically acclaimed author is already trying to freak out his readers with a mirror bolted atop another mirror. Horror doesn't require death and dismemberment, but there does have to be some sort of threat, and that threat needs to both plausible and sympathetic. From outside the Weird Fiction community echo chamber, the entire premise of the "horror of ordinary objects" looks like an unconscious rehashing of old sitcom gags about effeminate men fainting from the sight of mice or having to touch something dirty. If it becomes a popular trope with Weird Fiction, I wager it will push away a lot of readers.

I feel like the classic horror authors could also be more harshly criticized. Sometimes they are but I think that a lot of us have bought into the idea of the Old Masters at a time in our lives when we were less critical and more willing to overlook certain flaws that we grown accustomed to (film fans are especially guilty), and new authors with a different set of flaws are less likely to get that benefit.

I disagree. In the last decade or so, Lovecraft, Machen, James, etc. have gained something of a rabid fan base - but even then, with Lovecraft at least, there's also been an equally rabid backlash. In terms of critical assessment from other authors, however, I've never seen anyone pulling punches - charges that Lovecraft is long winded, James repetitive, and Machen dry are standard. And literary criticism of these authors is still incredibly shallow; I just received the OWC hardcover edition of M.R. James today, and the editor, Darryl Jones, takes the now seemingly old fashioned interpretation that James' horror stories are all about a gay man's fear of touching vaginas.

On the other hand, there is something of siege mentality within current Weird Fiction. Before all the political controversies, Laird Barron was quickly condemned for making fun of Ligotti, Samuels, and Strange Horizons, and then in turn Jeff Vandermeer got jabbed for - horrors of horrors - giving Laird Barron a mediocre review on Amazon. My take is that authors are expected to muzzle their opinions in order to trade blurbs and protect each other's sales, which from the consumer end - which is my end - I find extremely disingenuous, especially now that personal politics is fair game for a take down. When it comes to squabbles over politics versus writing, the later might actually improve output - or at least deter stories where people get freaked out by bathroom mirrors and beef jerky.
 
Isn't this "Quiet Horror"? Pretty sure I've seen that term mentioned on Facebook. I wonder what the most extreme evolution of this style would be and exactly how quiet it could become before it's no longer horror? Presumably a story with a plot like "an old lady thinks something mildly unpleasant but tactfully keeps it to herself"?

I'm not sure - I suspect the style arose from the relative popularity of Object Oriented Philosophy within the Weird Fiction community. There's also not much more of an extreme left when a critically acclaimed author is already trying to freak out his readers with a mirror bolted atop another mirror. Horror doesn't require death and dismemberment, but there does have to be some sort of threat, and that threat needs to both plausible and sympathetic. From outside the Weird Fiction community echo chamber, the entire premise of the "horror of ordinary objects" looks like an unconscious rehashing of old sitcom gags about effeminate men fainting from the sight of mice or having to touch something dirty. If it becomes a popular trope with Weird Fiction, I wager it will push away a lot of readers.

Despite having a long-standing interest in object-oriented philosophy, I wasn't aware that it had any popularity among New Weird writers (though I probably should have expected this, after Harman's book on Lovecraft). And Quiet Horror is a new term to me. I feel oblivious.

I'm not necessarily bored by a literary focus on ordinary objects (I speak as one who finds Robbe-Grillet's novels oddly fascinating). And it doesn't bother me that such works are unlikely to have broad appeal. But what an unimaginative and unpromising use of object-oriented philosophy, to weakly amalgamate it with standard genre plotting, if in fact that is what is happening.
 
I'm surprised Quiet Horror is a new term to anyone here, I think it's been around since the 80s. Splatterpunk made the ghost story and writers for the Shadows series more of a distinct subgenre than they used to be, so it was called Quiet Horror.

Speaking Mute- you're right about a lot of that but in any fannish circles there is always a lot of people who're willing to give their early favourites more passes than they'd give new creators or even old creators with very different sensibilities than they're used to.
I'm aware of myself being more discriminating about new things sometimes, so I try to cast a more critical eye on things I grew up with and consider what flaws I'm more accepting of and why.

What did Barron criticize about Strange Horizons?
 
I'm only silent on Quentin Crisp because I've yet to read his work, and that's only because my bilbliophilia is forcing me to hold out until I can afford Out There and Erith later this year.
Is Out There still available? Why not dive straight in with All Gods Angels Beware! and Rule Dementia!? I don't think you'll regret it.
 
Despite having a long-standing interest in object-oriented philosophy, I wasn't aware that it had any popularity among New Weird writers (though I probably should have expected this, after Harman's book on Lovecraft). And Quiet Horror is a new term to me. I feel oblivious.

I'm not necessarily bored by a literary focus on ordinary objects (I speak as one who finds Robbe-Grillet's novels oddly fascinating). And it doesn't bother me that such works are unlikely to have broad appeal. But what an unimaginative and unpromising use of object-oriented philosophy, to weakly amalgamate it with standard genre plotting, if in fact that is what is happening.

I only have a hunch about the link to Object Oriented Philosophy based on the timeline - nothing from the writing itself indicates a direct link. Eugene Thacker started gaining popularity with The Black Metal Theory Symposium around 2009, peaking in 2014 with his exposure through True Detective. I can't think of any instances where the authors I read from the 00's dedicated any amount of time to an object that wasn't cursed/haunted itself or a red herring. Then four of six author anthologies I pick up happen to have at least one instance where a defect in an ordinary object is supposed to be a source of horror. All the authors in question are also applying recent literary theory surrounding Weird Fiction - unreliable narratives, open ended stories, few direct confrontations with the supernatural etc. are the rule.

I'm not familiar with Robbe-Grillet, so the reference is lost on me. I wouldn't take it as a ironclad rule that there's nothing that can be done with the trope - I love Borges' "There Are More Things", which comes close to embodying it - but the trope is very limited in scope and difficult to pull off. This usually means that the authors who probably should stay away from it are going to be the ones who use it the most. In "Past Reno" it's also just one more annoying aspect of the (lack of) plot.

I'm more concerned with good writers still writing Weird Horror than broad appeal. It seems to me that Weird Horror has only just gotten away from bad Lovecraft pastiche, and now it's embracing bad Ligotti/Aickman pastiche.


I'm surprised Quiet Horror is a new term to anyone here, I think it's been around since the 80s. Splatterpunk made the ghost story and writers for the Shadows series more of a distinct subgenre than they used to be, so it was called Quiet Horror.

...

What did Barron criticize about Strange Horizons?

Everything I've found in regards to Quiet Horror is within the last few years. Even after reading a bit about it, I still don't understand it as a literary classification - it makes sense when applied to horror films, but in terms of written fiction it sounds like 90% of the horror genre.

I forget the name of the story and am hazy on the details, but he took a passing swipe at Strange Horizon's pretentiousness alongside Joshi, Samuels, and Ligotti. It got overshadowed in the scuffle with Joshi and fans of Ligotti.

Is Out There still available? Why not dive straight in with All Gods Angels Beware! and Rule Dementia!? I don't think you'll regret it.

I probably wouldn't regret it, but I'm a cynical reader and strategic book collector. When approaching an author I haven't read, if there's a fine/collectible edition available, I'll buy that knowing that I can at least recoup most of my money if I don't like it. A paperback, on the other hand, is almost always a waste of money from my perspective - if I like the book, I'll still want a nicer hardcover edition, and if I don't like the book I'll be lucky if I sell it for a dollar or two. It may be obsessive, but profits from selling rare books actually keeps my book collecting relatively self-sustaining.
 
In many ways the modern age is a bad one for reading (the average person is less interested in books now than in the past) but this is only true (or mainly true) in occidental countries, i.e. in the West.

In many other countries people devour books, perhaps at an even greater rate than they did in their own past, and 'literature' itself is still regarded as a worthwhile pursuit, not only for all the reasons it was regarded as a worthwhile pursuit in our past, but for extra reasons too: reasons of finally finding a platform to communicate more broadly.

The modern age has given us one gift in exchange for everything it has taken away. It has enabled us to more easily access literature from countries and cultures that previously remained obscure to us through a combination of logistical difficulties and casual market prejudice.

The contemporary writers I read and enjoy most these days are authors like Mia Couto, José Eduardo Agualusa, Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, J. M. G. Le Clézio, all of whom have a superb gift for language and invention, a language and invention that is quite unlike that of occidental 'weird' writers. These writers (and others) utilize a technique in which form and frame are still regarded as important to the integrity and effectiveness of a work (something that has been forgotten in the West) and in which the events described and the language that enshrines it produces an ecstatic reading experience that is refreshing and uplifting and seems to be looking forward even though it is rooted in the past and deals with the present.
 
I still read a fair amount of translated literature, but I mostly read occidental fiction because I only speak English and am concerned as to just how much has been lost in translation or whether I'm a fan of the translator's prose and not the author's. I don't feel I could truly consider myself to be appreciating a work of literature if I haven't read it in the original language.

I appreciate the musical flow of prose and prioritise it highly in an author, so translated prose can make me feel like I'm listening to a cover of a song in which every single note has been changed, and in that case, is it still the same song?
 
I am currently considering narrowing my leisure reading to Chinese biji, histories of the blues, Old- and Middle-English texts, classical histories, and occasional science fiction novels for contrast. And tales about werewolves. And possibly one or two other things.

Any Biji floating ( translated ) around the internet that you might recommend?

Unfortunately, I can't find a translation, so far, on the internet, but I'm very much enjoying Zhang Chao's Quiet Dream Shadows, included in the volume by Lin Yutang mentioned (The Importance of Understanding). Here is a selection of quotes therefrom:

"To talk with a learned friend is like reading a remarkable book; with a romantic friend, like reading good prose and poetry; with an upright friend, like reading the classics; with a humorous friend, like reading fiction."


"A rainy day in spring is suitable for reading; a rainy day in summer for playing chess; a rainy day in autumn for going over things in the trunks or in the attic; and that in winter for a good drink."


"It shows the heart of Buddha (misericordia) to worry about clouds with the moon, about moths with books, about winds and rains with flowers, and to sympathize with beautiful women and brilliant poets about their harsh fate."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Chao#Quiet_Dream_Shadows_.E5.B9.BD.E6.A2.A6.E5.BD.B1
 
[...]The majority of people my age haven't read a book since school.[...]

... really?

This seems a little hyperbolic. The only way I can imagine this being the case is if you're including emerging economies that are undereducated and have high levels of ACTUAL illiteracy... in which case, I doubt that represents a negative change versus historical averages. Heaven knows you don't need to go about inventing problems if you're looking for reasons to despair...

These are US-only statistics. They paint a disappointing picture, but given your low starting base, they may actually cheer you up!

The Atlantic - The Decline of the American Book Lover
 
Everything I've found in regards to Quiet Horror is within the last few years. Even after reading a bit about it, I still don't understand it as a literary classification - it makes sense when applied to horror films, but in terms of written fiction it sounds like 90% of the horror genre.

I probably wouldn't regret it, but I'm a cynical reader and strategic book collector. When approaching an author I haven't read, if there's a fine/collectible edition available, I'll buy that knowing that I can at least recoup most of my money if I don't like it. A paperback, on the other hand, is almost always a waste of money from my perspective - if I like the book, I'll still want a nicer hardcover edition, and if I don't like the book I'll be lucky if I sell it for a dollar or two. It may be obsessive, but profits from selling rare books actually keeps my book collecting relatively self-sustaining.

There's a lot of extreme horror, splatterpunk, bizarro horror and horror written for very mainstream sensibilities. I see less of it since weird fiction drifted further away from them but I'd bet there's less people doing weird fiction.

How often do you get paperbacks because there's a lot of paperback exclusives, particularly anthologies.
 
I still read a fair amount of translated literature, but I mostly read occidental fiction because I only speak English and am concerned as to just how much has been lost in translation or whether I'm a fan of the translator's prose and not the author's. I don't feel I could truly consider myself to be appreciating a work of literature if I haven't read it in the original language.

I appreciate the musical flow of prose and prioritise it highly in an author, so translated prose can make me feel like I'm listening to a cover of a song in which every single note has been changed, and in that case, is it still the same song?

I find translations interesting in and of themselves because of the stylistic variations. I own multiple translations of several authors; with Ovid, I own both the Oxford Latin edition of Metamorphoses and then six different English translations. My favorite "Ovid" is actually the first English translation of Metamorphoses by Golding:

http://www.elizabethanauthors.org/ovid00.htm

How often do you get paperbacks because there's a lot of paperback exclusives, particularly anthologies.

Not counting chapbooks, I've purchased something around twenty paperbacks this year - that includes fiction and nonfiction. I will put off buying a book if I suspect a nicer edition will be released down the line. And with genre fiction, I'm now conservative to the point that by the time I'm considering a contemporary author they have something available in a nice cloth hardcover with a sewn binding. I'm still quite adventurous with chapbooks - poetry, "experimental" fiction (aka prose poetry), and mini-comics - and almost buy them in bulk, but here the running price is $1-5 each versus $10-25 for a paperback. I've also found that chapbooks with stapled or DIY bindings hold up better than most perfect bound paperbacks.
 
This guy on youtube generally reviews books and some decent ones at that, and he recently put up this video I found to be quite relevant to this topic and quite inspiring as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0twmHUvqEg
 
I used to watch and donate to him, but ever since he made the "6 Tips to Optimize Your Reading" I found him to be undeniably pretentious.
 
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