01-29-2017 | #21 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
Not that it's any secret but I have a higher tolerance level for the 'Nietzschean nihilists' to the Schopenhauerian ones. I've more more sympathy for a man who says 'There is No God so therefore the meaning of the world is an arbitrary posit of my equally arbitrary will' to the one who says 'There is no God so do what I say, feel as I say; get up and fight the good fight!' .
I can't speak so much for the Stalinist types; I suspect in the Post New Left scenario a great deal of their strength and image comes from a primarily negative oppositional stance. Regarding the 'MRA white nationalists*', I'm only familiar with one of them, and I suspect he would be happy with that state-of-affairs, though by his own logic he would also be happy with a multi-racial society where everyone acted in a certain way (he would merely dismiss the possibility of such a society). Racism is ultimately a difficult one to square with anti-Consequentialism and free will since it makes moral assessments of people based on something other than their behavior as moral agents. *MRA is a difficult term. If you meant the American pickup-artist 'Game' thing then given the emphasis on personal victory over others it is hard to see how it could serve as the grounds of a stable society. Even the much vaunted Libertarian style society where everyone is free to pursue absolute unbridled competition is unlikely. As the whole thing is meant to be amoral (in which case what bearing does it have on political proposals?) it is hard to see what objection they could give against re-engineering certain standards of sexual desirability through media imaging and social pressure. | |||||||||||
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01-29-2017 | #22 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
Not quite sure what you're referring to in this part. | |||||||||||
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01-29-2017 | #23 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
I try to listen to some of Boyd Rice's songs, and the common messages seem to be about this persecution complex they have against value systems. Society's values are viewed as delusional--chains which keep them back--and a great upheaval needs to happen for things to be "right" again.
Nihilism explains their symptoms, and fascism as one of the solutions. I'm not sure what you mean by poseur. Boyd Rice appears genuine in his beliefs. If you know about Boyd Rice, what do you think of Death in June? | |||||||||||
"Tell me how you want to die, and I'll tell you who you are. In other words, how do you fill out an empty life? With women, books, or worldly ambitions? No matter what you do, the starting point is boredom, and the end self-destruction. The emblem of our fate: the sky teeming with worms. Baudelaire taught me that life is the ecstasy of worms in the sun, and happiness the dance of worms."
---Tears and Saints, E. M. Cioran
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01-30-2017 | #24 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
Let's compare Nietzsche and Brigham Young. Nietzsche is a favorite of edge lords, and Brigham Young is not. Yet Nietzsche was a sickly academic working in German philology who died in pitiable mental and physical condition without descendants, while Brigham Young was a military, political and spiritual leader who more or less held the entire U.S. national government at bay and died with legions of descendants. I'm pretty certain that in every definition of "strength" we could give, Brigham Young would demolish Nietzsche. Clearly, Young was much more of a superman than Nietzsche, although entirely in service of ideas most of us would consider silly (sorry if there are any Mormons reading this). Thing is, this is pretty par for the course in human history. Note that Young didn't make up his own ideas, they were cribbed from Prophet Smith, who was a bit of a charlatan to be honest (trying to find buried treasure, dicking about with magic stones, writing King James fan fiction, etc). You often see this - another example would be the Nation of Islam, which was founded by another dodgy vanishing trickster type, Wallace D. Fard, and then carried into great seriousness by passionate community organisers like Elijah Muhammad. Decadent or Neo-Decadent art requires a high degree of civilization to come about. You can't spend all your time creating artistic beauty if you're in a war zone or trying to support a large family. You can only have a Flaubert or Huysmans once you’ve got a society that allows a high degree of leisure, and is relatively permissive. It’s the same reason the Marquis de Sade was a MARQUIS and not a Breton peasant or whatever. | |||||||||||
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01-30-2017 | #25 |
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
I feel allegedly unhappy people are accused of pretence more than allegedly happy people. There are no doubt many Rust Cohle wannabes running around, but I don't see why anybody posting a Carl Sagan image they barely understand on social media doesn't court the same accusations of pretentiousness.
My personal inner suicidal and depressed nature is so detached from the outer universe that I don't understand many unhappy nihilists. Nietzsche's teachings in particular seem to be championing positive values of self-determination and intellectual freedom when placed in their correct context of a society under religious tyranny. |
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01-30-2017 | #26 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
The society Nietzsche inhabited was relatively permissive. If it hadn't been, he wouldn't have been able to maintain a university position, much less publish his ideas. Actual religious tyranny is where they just kill you. : ) | |||||||||||
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01-30-2017 | #27 |
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
Relatively permissive compared to other societies, but still tyrannical in its inculcation of supposedly objective, rigid, unquestionable values among the populace. |
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01-30-2017 | #28 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
It certainly wasn't ideal, but it could definitely have been worse. I'm of the unfashionable opinion that the West has been more or less progressing, despite numerous pendulum swings and setbacks. And the change to "Having a messed up mind from childhood indoctrination" from "Getting instantly killed for making fun of God" is actually a positive one. Humans are mostly stupid, boring and conservative, so it takes a long time for anything to change, and the stupidity is always at the door waiting to rush right back in (see: current America). | |||||||||||
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01-30-2017 | #29 |
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
This is my opinion also, generally. Contemporary values and art alienate me, but at least I'm safe enough to hide away in my corner of Romanticism and embarrassing earnestness. Indeed. Hideous. |
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01-30-2017 | #30 | |||||||||||
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Re: Nihilist poseurs and tiresome decadent rebels?
Nihilism is mentioned here, briefly, but in a way that to me seems relevant to this thread:
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“Absolutely candid, carefree, but straightforward speech becomes possible for the first time when one speaks of the highest." - Friedrich Schlegel
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