Articles of interest

Potentially, but an economic system that will definitely destroy the environment is more immediately remediable. People aren't waiting ridiculous times in my country to see a doctor because of overpopulation. They're doing so because public funding is being cut more and more.

[paeng]

Overpopulation cannot be a lie for obvious reasons: the biosphere has a limited carrying capacity, which means it cannot sustain both increasing population and consumption per capita. Also, this is not based on right-wing politics but on scientific fact, especially given limits to growth.

Human ingenuity can only increase availability of resources to a certain point, which is what we've been seeing since 1945. With the use of fossil fuels for mechanized agriculture and manufacturing, we've managed to increase availability of goods and services to such an extent that we've lowered infant mortality rates and increased ave. life spans considerably, but this has also caused the population to balloon from two billion to over seven billion in only a few decades. And even with lower birth rates, it will be set to rise to 9-11 billion due to population momentum.

In order to sustain that plus a growing global middle class, we will need the equivalent of more than one earth in terms of resources. But that will be difficult because oil discoveries peaked back in 1964, oil production per capita in 1979, conventional production in 2005, and shale is next. In order to just maintain production increase plus offset declines from up to 80 pct of oil fields, we will need the equivalent of four more Saudi Arabias.

We can use other sources of energy, but they all have low energy returns and quantity. Just to adjust to using fewer resources will we require extensive cooperation between nations, something that has not taken place across more than a century dominated by two World Wars and a lengthy Cold War that has led to millions dead in poorer countries.

Meanwhile, global ecological damage continues, and the effects of global warming appear to be underestimated, especially given ocean heat content and dozens of positive feedback loops that have been noted only recently. All of these might explain why oil production cost rose to $50-90 after 2005, the global financial crash of 2008 and concerns over another crash, the oil industry facing over $2 trillion in debt and needing even more to access more expensive oil (e.g., CAPEX has increased considerably in exchange for lower increases in production, a classic case of diminishing returns), soaring global debt and plans for more rate hikes, what now appears to be increased saber-rattling via trade wars and more threats of attacks, and combinations of heat waves, floods, etc.

As much as I complain about other things, and assuming there isn't a bigger, somehow nastier surprise on the horizon (nuclear holocaust), the ignorance regarding climate change will likely be looked back on as the great moral sin of this age. Increased corporate regulation is essential. If we have to continue down this awful path, it only makes the argument for antinatalism stronger. We're a nightmare building a bigger nightmare for future generations.

The extinction of humanity and desolation of the biosphere is inevitable, but more needs to be done if the human race (allegedly) has to continue, and the increased necessity for nations to work together in combating such hell is another reason to discard the nationalist mentality.

[cannibal cop]

Quote Originally Posted by paeng

Overpopulation cannot be a lie for obvious reasons: the biosphere has a limited carrying capacity, which means it cannot sustain both increasing population and consumption per capita. Also, this is not based on right-wing politics but on scientific fact, especially given limits to growth.

I can't believe any half-intelligent person would claim otherwise. In fact, "overpopulation is a lie" is a standard right-wing anti-environmental point of argument. Capitalism loves overpopulation, it thrives on it. The more potential consumers of its products, the merrier it is.

It's left-leaning centralized economies that struggle to cope with population pressures. Witness everything from the mass starvations in the USSR and communist China (though these were also at least partly engineered by the party leadership) to the lack of basic necessities as seen in Cuba and North Korea and now in Venezuela.

Of course, left unchecked, overpopulation will eventually exacerbate the worsening condition of the environment and the depletion of resources to the point that even capitalism and probably even civilization itself must collapse, either completely or at least temporarily until a state of environmental equilibrium is restored.

This is part of the reason I hate politics, incidentally. Rather than actively addressing a problem like this, the political "solution" is always to point fingers at the opposition. It's capitalism's fault! Overpopulation is a lie! All the while, the world keeps growing hotter and the fires continue to spread.

That said, I still have some sympathy for putatively left-ish organizations like the World Wildlife Fund, Greenpeace, etc, generally made up of smart, committed people who are actively involved in the eternally losing battle to make this world a less terrible place, or at least to slow its decline into an even more terrible one.

On the other hand, the current culturally dominant breed of whiny, identity-fixated leftists blessed with an almost psychotically elevated sense of personal entitlement have zero sympathy from me. And I don't care what your politics are if you think you deserve the power to police the speech of individuals or organizations you don't approve of--you're all the same petty tyrants in a teacup as far as I'm concerned.

[Acutely decayed]

not sure if this is strictly an article or a webpage - and everyone should have already seen it, as you would be following feuilleton - just in case

http://wormwoodiana.blogspot.com/201...er-dreamt.html

Morpheus comes to mind and one's own experiences, very fine

Quote Originally Posted by cannibal cop

This is part of the reason I hate politics, incidentally. Rather than actively addressing a problem like this, the political "solution" is always to point fingers at the opposition. It's capitalism's fault! Overpopulation is a lie! All the while, the world keeps growing hotter and the fires continue to spread.

Yes, surprisingly it's important to identify and diagnose a disease in order to treat it. I said present overpopulation discourse has become dominated by lies, as it has if austerity and capitalism are ignored in the same discussions, just as concern with immigration is also dishonest when ignoring such issues. This rant has done nothing to make me question that claim. Always amusing how whenever the ranting edge lords on here claim 'ALL POLITICAL DISCUSSION POISONS EVERYTHING. I AM TRUE NEUTRAL INTELLECTUAL!' they say so in posts while expounding upon their own dumb, tacky populist right political views at length. So silly.

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It's left-leaning centralized economies that struggle to cope with population pressures. Witness everything from the mass starvations in the USSR and communist China (though these were also at least partly engineered by the party leadership) to the lack of basic necessities as seen in Cuba and North Korea and now in Venezuela.

Are environmental regulations really what led to Stalinism and Juche? Hint: no. So... what do we do then? No further corporate regulation is needed to protect the environment? We should just give up because of these irrelevant examples that have nothing to do with the topic at hand?

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On the other hand, the current culturally dominant breed of whiny, identity-fixated leftists blessed with an almost psychotically elevated sense of personal entitlement have zero sympathy from me. And I don't care what your politics are if you think you deserve the power to police the speech of individuals or organizations you don't approve of--you're all the same petty tyrants in a teacup as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not even sure how this last paragraph on 'identity obsession' (¬_¬) or free speech (??) fits with the rest of the post. It's as if you got to the end and felt you hadn't included enough cliched right-wing talking points to complete my bingo card. I have some friends here and like the staff, but this place is a joke. Why does Ligotti appeal to so many pretentious ranting male buffoon reactionaries? I don't get it. Read his many anti-capitalist horror stories or his political comments in interviews. He's definitely not on your side, my dudes, and he's certainly not neutral. As most of the best Ligotti/wyrd discussion is to be found elsewhere these days, I'm starting to question what I get out of this place. A break is due. People can find me on Twitter if they need me.

[Evans]

We had political discussion threads on this forum. Most of the serious ones got closed and Des' stream of consciousness Trump and Brexit threads survived the longest largely because they allowed people to express their frustration at the more surreal aspects of the situation. My thread about Climate Change was deleted for reasons I never discovered. I wouldn't mind having a serious civil political discussion thread that was only subject to moderation to remove personally abusive stuff (deleting disruptive posts rather than closing). That way people could have threads about Weird Fiction stuff that did descend into political flouncing.

Quote Originally Posted by James

I'm starting to question what I get out of this place. A break is due. People can find me on Twitter if they need me.

So you can rant about people where they can't answer back just as Mark does with his blog? You Culture Warriors are all the same.

[Gnosticangel]

"I have some friends here and like the staff, but this place is a joke. Why does Ligotti appeal to so many pretentious ranting male buffoon reactionaries? .... As most of the best Ligotti/wyrd discussion is to be found elsewhere these days, I'm starting to question what I get out of this place."

Sorry to hear you feel this way, James, hope that it's a passing frustration only. Your departure would be a loss to TLO, just as much as it would be losing the space to have respectful political disagreement among members.

[dr. locrian]

It's disconcerting and not a little exhausting that political debate turned nasty has to be called out here.

For what feels like the hundredth time, please take it elsewhere.

[Revenant]

Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Locrian

It's disconcerting and not a little exhausting that political debate turned nasty has to be called out here. For what feels like the hundredth time, please take it elsewhere.

To the Field of Honor! Squirt guns at ten paces. The first one to get their t-shirt discolored loses.