Close all libraries!

[Malone]

Good to see free-thought goes unthreatened in the land of the free!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...raries-chicago

[Russell Nash]

Wow!

I live in Toronto. The operating budget for public libraries in 2010 is $180,581,000 CAD

Toronto Public Library - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Toronto_Public_Library

and there are 99 public libraries in the city. Here

--Documents

(page 38) you can see that some money comes from private companies, for example, TD Bank Group and Sun Life donate over $100,000 a year only.

However, the useless G8 and G20 two or three day meeting cost $1.1 billion. Well, considering that almost $200 million of this amount (the total operating cost for TPLs in 2010) was spent in meals and hotels for several presidents and their parasites, I definitely disagree with the idea that libraries are useless. I also remember that the city paid almost half a million dollars to Bill Clinton for showing his face for a few hours. And I don't know if that money was ever recovered. I used public libraries a lot myself, and having two kids, I borrow 5 to 10 books every two weeks for them.

Books and knowledge are always an investment. Illiteracy and ignorance are much cheaper but the final cost is devastating.

[Russell Nash]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cheev

Today's libraries are little more than video rental outlets, arcades, music stores, day care centers complete with screaming children, and places to do your social networking. Frankly, they're zoos. Oh, and they have a few books. Not many. Why waste valuable resources on books when you can order another twenty copies of the latest idiotic dvd? I tried to get a copy of a new - and expensive- book on Poe criticism recently. Not one library in our interlibrary loan network has it. But, here, why not watch this new Judd Apatow movie instead.

Sir, the fact that a book on Poe is not found in any library in your district doesn't mean anything. They surely have other books that are as important as (or even more important than) the one you are looking for. I don't know where you live but not every city is the same. Have you ever heard of Praetorius? It looks like a Greek name, it is not, he was a German composer, Michael Praetorius, the first time I heard of him, was, yes, in a Toronto Public Library. What about Nigel Eaton? He is probably the best hurdy-gurdy player in the world, "The Music of the Hurdy Gurdy" can also be found in a TPL as well. A double CD with "Music Without Words" by Mendelsshon, yes, can be found in a public library. The list is too long. You are not going to deny that these names are part of our culture, right? There are also lots of books on ESL, well you probably don't need it because you were born in America, but people, like me, did need it. ESL, means English as a Second language. Toronto is a multicultural city, or you expect other people that were born in other countries speak English as perfect as you do? There are thousand of books distributed along different libraries in Toronto. They are very expensive, and cost nothing, if you borrow them from libraries. Also TOEFL books. Depending of the area you live, you have Chinese written books, Spanish written books, etc. A book by Borges or Cortazar (unless they were stolen) could be found in a TPL, in Spanish. There is also a library specialized in Inuit or First Nations literature, in the Chinese area library. There is also a library that has the Merril Collection of Sci-Fi books. 68,000 items! Toronto Public LibraryUnique Collections The Metropolitan Toronto Reference Library has a book about Hurdy Gurdy (worth $200 on ABE), in fact they have more books related to hurdy gurdies. There are also encyclopedias, with a collection of great writers. The list is too long. I have visited about 20 different libraries in over 10 years in Toronto. And I do understand why Toronto is a first world city. We don't have that many books in Buenos Aires, and most of the libraries in my hometown were private, which means, to borrow books one has to pay a fee. Here, it's supported with tax payers money. I'm not into DVDs, most of the films I love are totally different from Die Hard, an icon of American film industry, right? But this is what people want to watch at night. if not I don't understand why Rogers (my cable company) has to repeat time and again American films when there are so many other films, by Depardieu for example, that are excellent quality as well. I do not share this idea that if people ask for #### (best sellers, Bruce Willis' films) give them ####. It's about time to teach people what to read, to listen to, to watch. Promote good books, instead of Stephen King's books.

That libraries should teach people what to read, I agree. Most people in these "so called" first world countries think that Argentina is a land of Indians, or that Arab countries are terrorists. That's not the case. Naguib Mahfouz was Nobel prize in literature, and has excellent books. Have you read "The Time and the Place" by Mahfouz? There is no other writer that can even emulate that quality of his prose. And it can be found for $10 and not for $100. Guillermo Martinez is another excellent writer and he is from Argentina. These books can also be found in public libraries. Does the existence or not of a book on Poe denies all the rest of the books? Many people spend almost $100 in a book by an almost unknown writer (only known to certain online groups), if a book on Poe is so important for you, buy it yourself. I also donated books to TPLs, not many, but they were hardcover copies, poetry books, that I didn't need anymore. If the book by Poe is not in your district, buy it, read it, and later donate it.

[Corman]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cheev

Today's libraries are little more than video rental outlets, arcades, music stores, day care centers complete with screaming children, and places to do your social networking. Frankly, they're zoos. Oh, and they have a few books. Not many. Why waste valuable resources on books when you can order another twenty copies of the latest idiotic dvd? I tried to get a copy of a new - and expensive- book on Poe criticism recently. Not one library in our interlibrary loan network has it. But, here, why not watch this new Judd Apatow movie instead.

I have to disagree. My local library is in a geographical and cultural wasteland in southeastern Washington, and they've just undergone renovations to expand the library's book storage space. They have a spectacular selection of writing, both fictional and non-fictional, and will gladly take requests on what to order. In the past year alone, I got them to add, among others, My Work Is Not Yet Done, Laird Barron's The Imago Sequence, Al Columbia's Pim & Francie, Ramsey Campbell's Alone With The Horrors, John Langan's Mr. Gaunt, Tales Designed To Thrizzle, and The Cyberiad to their collection.

True, some libraries are badly stocked and operated (plus the ILL is pretty abysmal at times), but that's probably more a function of funding than anything else. The library has to have steady foot traffic to justify its continued existence and, sadly, a good chunk of the American populace is not interested in literature (or even reading). Just be glad conservatives aren't privatizing it.

[Russell Nash]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Cheev

Quote Originally Posted by Russell Nash They surely have other books that are as important as (or even more important than) the one you are looking for. ??? This is a ridiculous statement. No, I hadn't heard of the German Shmerman Praetorius, nor do I care to now or EVER(!) for that matter. If you want a cd, go buy it yourself. I have read Mahfouz (in a book) and he is an excellent writer, I agree. You spend an inordinate amount of your posts, Alberto, trying to point out your vast wealth of knowledge. Save it, no one cares or is the least bit impressed. Nice avatar, btw, it suits you. Quote Originally Posted by Russell Nash Most people in these "so called" first world countries think that Argentina is a land of Indians, or that Arab countries are terrorists. That is true, especially in the ethnocentric USA. We are subject to propaganda day and night by people whose interests are in exploiting these countries. Quote Originally Posted by Russell Nash if a book on Poe is so important for you, buy it yourself. For your information, the book on Poe costs eighty-five dollars. Most books on literary criticism, and similar academic endeavors, published by university presses are too expensive. That should not mean that they be inaccessible to the public. That is why the library system was set up in the first place.

1) I spent 28 years of my life reading, why should I be ashamed of it?

My avatar (right now) is a famous American actor, and I also like his films. It's Roddy McDowall.

You said that I have a "vast wealth of knowledge", and later you said that "my avatar (right now: a monkey) suits me". Do you see your contradiction, or should I explain it to you?

2) I cannot understand your second comment. If you imply that America is also a land of immigrants, who is going to deny it? Some people (in Canada, and well educated you may say) still ask me if Buenos Aires is the capital of Brazil. I can name almost the 50 states of America by heart, and I was never there, since I was in high school, how many provinces do you know in Argentina? I can name you dozens of American writers, American actors, American blah blah blah. How many do you know from Argentina, Ecuador, South Africa, China? Should I say more about propaganda.

3) Well, libraries have lots of books, lots. There is also a library of rare books belonging to the University of Toronto. Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library, University of Toronto Libraries But they can't have all books on Earth. Did you buy any Ex-Occidente Press book yet? If you can spend that much on a book, you can certainly afford buying a book on Poe. Libraries are supposed to have books that most people read, not all the books you particularly want to read.

In my hometown, my local library had 25,000 books. And it wasn't the only one, but comparing that library with any of the Toronto Public Libraries, I feel proud of living in Toronto.

Besides, I don't understand why you get upset at me. Did I offend you? I'm sorry. I suppose that I can have a different viewpoint. Whether someone else likes my comments or not, well, I received private emails that would prove that someone cares. You want me to tell you from who? I have learned a lot lately, from TLO members, but your wish would probably come true one day. But I will leave the day I want, or the day I'm banned.

	TLO THOMAS LIGOTTI ONLINE

[Ascrobius]

I say we eradicate human civilization entirely and stop wasting all this time thinking we're accomplishing anything (Damn....someone thought of that already ;) ). In addition, I submit to you that they, whoever they may be, should start right here in Amerika, where all the dummies live.

[Ascrobius]

I know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie-Pop! ;)

[Dr. Bantham]

A member from outside of this thread has reported content herein. Please tone down the mood a bit and refrain from further personal attacks. Why not take a break and visit your local library?

[Russell Nash]

Mr Cheev, it looks like one of your previous comments was deleted. But you said that no one cares about what I said. To be honest, you do, because you keep answering me. Why don't you stop attacking me, and allow me to have a different viewopint. And now that we both stated our viewpoints, 1) I think that libraries are useful, 2) you probably don't, because you didn't find a book on Poe in any library in your district (even though they might have many other important books), why don't we show some respect by allowing other members to have their own viewpoints?

Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bantham

A member from outside of this thread has reported content herein. Please tone down the mood a bit and refrain from further personal attacks. Why not take a break and visit your local library?

Dr Bantham, It is not my idea when posting anything to show "a vast wealth of knowledge". In fact, I learned so many diverse things from several TLO members. I had never heard of Grabinski before I read that name in a story by Mark Samuels, and also from Ligotti, from Tekeli-li 4, having a special Ligotti edition as well as a Grabinski edition. When I recently posted a story by Clemente Palma, a Peruvian writer, or a brief description of a book by Fanlo, and Argentine writer, did I do that to show "a vast wealth of knowledge"? Or did I answer a question by other member who requested to know horror writers from other countries? The same with my postings on Breccia and Quiroga. Do I intend to show "knowledge" or to share information (that someone else might not have)?

My idea was always to post something interesting that other members might consider useful, to share other than to show any erudition.

	TLO THOMAS LIGOTTI ONLINE

[The Silent One]

Personally, I find the idea of defunding libraries reprehensible, especially in such a place as Chicago, where such places take on great importance as both safe areas in violent regions and places in which learning can and might actually take place - a stark contrast to the underfunded education system itself, which legislators country-wide have made a concerted effort to ignore.

Furthermore, I owe a bloody great deal to my regional library system, in all honesty. Without the public library system, I would never have read SOADD - not to mention many other intriguing texts, most recently the score to Stockhausen's Mixtur, which I could not have found otherwise - and I, perhaps, would not be "here" now.

Just because your area's library has become a haven for ingrates and cretins does not mean that the institution as a concept is a failure or worthy of elimination by any means.

Might I not also mention that the station that aired the report, being an affiliate of Fox, has a certain modicum of, shall we say, "anti-social spending" bias? To put it another way: The modus operandi of NewsCorp and its subsidiaries, even at the local level, is to subtly push a right-wing economic agenda upon the news-viewing public, and are quite willing to severely skew perspective in their stories to make their point, regardless of contrary evidence.

Admittedly, I have my own entrenched biases - predominantly wildly leftist, if you must know - but that does not mean that what I see is not there. It is also true that it is occasionally refreshing to look at the other side of a given issue. But nonetheless, there is a visceral chord struck within me when someone states that it is better for a group of people to take away something important to their wellbeing if it theoretically saves them - or someone else - a relatively small modicum of money.