The Supernatural

[Mr. Veech]

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech Quote Originally Posted by Knygathin As to supernatural or spiritual perceptions, I believe those can also be a form of faint glimmering beyond our physical capacity (if not, more often, purely mental illusions and emotional distortions of the senses). But such experiences are so personal, that they cannot really be shared with others. The responses from telling others, will not be meaningful beyond gaping disbelief and blank stares; in other words, deeply unsatisfactory. Such experiences are best left transformed into the arts, where some meaning may be destilled from it. I explained this to someone recently. If someone does in fact encounter something supernatural, then it must be frustrating beyond belief to communicate it to another person. Oh absolutely. "So you believe in God. Well, have you seen him?" "No but i feel Him near" "Your imagination" "I believe the eyewitness accounts of those who have seen a mountain see Him" "Hallucinating madmen" "Mountains can hallucinate, but men can't feel their creator near?" " you're being unreasonable" &c &c In the end all you can do is shrug, sit down behind your desk & draw a comic.

Another example would be supposed witnesses of Christ (post-crucifixion). The writers of the New Testament mention that he was seen after the crucifixion by hundreds of people. But at some point you can't provide someone with enough evidence for something like that.

It sounds paradoxical, but I sympathize with both the believer and the skeptic. Both seem to be rational in their own way. If I were present at something like that, I would respond in the same way as Thomas. He believed, but he believed after seeing him in the flesh. Thomas' skepticism was nullified. I feel that every person should be given such an opportunity.

[Ibrahim]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech

I feel that every person should be given such an opportunity.

Ah but we are given this, countless times each day; that we choose to squander or ignore such opportunities is another matter entirely...

With the mention of Spirit, i was just ineptly and generally grasping at an entire group of concepts somewhere between god's inbreathing of creation and the Jewish concept of Shekhinah (insofar i have properly understood it, not being Jewish), to point towards all things that could be roughly described as originally pertaining not to this perishable realm.

[Mr. Veech]

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech I feel that every person should be given such an opportunity. Ah but we are given this, countless times each day; that we choose to squander or ignore such opportunities is another matter entirely...

What do you mean? The fact that something exists at all is itself supernatural, or that what we label as "ordinary" or "mundane" is, if viewed from another angle, extraordinary?

[Ibrahim]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech

Quote Originally Posted by Ibrahim Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech I feel that every person should be given such an opportunity. Ah but we are given this, countless times each day; that we choose to squander or ignore such opportunities is another matter entirely... What do you mean? The fact that something exists at all is itself supernatural, or that what we label as "ordinary" or "mundane" is, if viewed from another angle, extraordinary?

I would not have been able to put it that succinctly myself but yes, all existence is supernatural. Of course, with me that is just an article of faith, and it won't do as a rational argument in favour of religion- i am aware of that.

But if there's any type of fiction capable of filtering the extraordinary from the ordinary, it is the Weird.

[DarkView]

The tendency for our species as a consequence of the type of consciousness we possess (sentient and sapient) is largely to see things definitively and invariably; to get rid of bugaboos and see the world as a static thing. This would seem to contradicted by religious belief, but I'd argue it strengthens it, particularly Monotheism, as this world is not part of the supernatural one and one's particular religion is the only correct one. Another consequence is that we have grown arrogant in the total explanatory power of our consciousness, e.g. the materialist doctrine, when the parameters of what we can actually perceive are very limited.

For most, I'd say that supernatural fiction is another way to hold the beliefs of an unseen world safely at bay by neutralizing it as art, and escape from this one which in many unspoken cases, is unbearable.

[Ibrahim]

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Veech

It sounds paradoxical, but I sympathize with both the believer and the skeptic.

It is a constant source of contemplation for me that the Islamic credo consists of both a denial ( there is no god) and an affirmation ( but god).