Is Weird Fiction Slanted Towards Western Values?

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute

Nor do I follow Joshi in thinking Cosmicism separates Weird from mainstream horror since a very large number of prominent authors popularly classified as Weird reject the view outright.

Could you give us examples? I'm not quite certain what you're saying they're rejecting.

[Justin Isis]

The idea that there is a separation between the human mind and the cosmos is a Western idea. Cosmic horror is sort of like a panic attack experienced by a teenage boy who feels alienated - “Monotheist God isn’t real...The universe is blind and indifferent."

So in that sense cosmic horror can only exist in a post-Enlightenment or scientific context…which was appropriate when Lovecraft was writing, but is fairly played out at this point.

As for materialism, Ligottian thanatic desire is still thwarted desire (at least while the speaker or narrator is still speaking and therefore still conscious) and still materialist, since it assumes that death consists of a cessation of consciousness - or if it doesn’t, it would be construed as (even more) horrific. "I can't die!" would not be an exclamation of joy in a Ligotti story.

[Speaking Mute]

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour

Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute Nor do I follow Joshi in thinking Cosmicism separates Weird from mainstream horror since a very large number of prominent authors popularly classified as Weird reject the view outright. Could you give us examples? I'm not quite certain what you're saying they're rejecting.

Joshi has often projected his anti-theism and scientific materialism onto the Weird Fiction genre as a whole - I forget the specific contexts, but he's claimed that authors like Robert Aickman either fall outside or fall short of the "Weird" aesthetic simply because their fiction incorporated the supernatural. So far as rejecting Cosmicism (a lifeless, indifferent universe), there's very few authors who actually embrace it - canonical Weird Fiction authors like James and Machen were practicing Christians, whereas others like Blackwood held pantheistic and spiritualist beliefs.

[Speaking Mute]

Quote Originally Posted by Justin Isis

The idea that there is a separation between the human mind and the cosmos is a Western idea. Cosmic horror is sort of like a panic attack experienced by a teenage boy who feels alienated - “Monotheist God isn’t real...The universe is blind and indifferent." So in that sense cosmic horror can only exist in a post-Enlightenment or scientific context…which was appropriate when Lovecraft was writing, but is fairly played out at this point.

The Lovecraftian universe isn't simply godless and indifferent - it's absolutely and eternally alien. Labeling this as dualistic thinking at best only raises a problem - the solution, if any, is an entirely different story. Buddhism often comes up as the epitome of non-dualistic, non-Western thinking, but once the exoticism is stripped away the reality is that there are countless different practices employed in "the ten thousand schools" that are all supposed to bridge or abolish the gap between the human mind and the cosmos. This diversity not only shows that dualistic thinking isn't restricted to a Western, post-Enlightenment context, but that at least one major tradition of Non-Western thought has failed to come up with a solution to the problem.

[qcrisp]

Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Adam Gilmour Quote Originally Posted by Speaking Mute Nor do I follow Joshi in thinking Cosmicism separates Weird from mainstream horror since a very large number of prominent authors popularly classified as Weird reject the view outright. Could you give us examples? I'm not quite certain what you're saying they're rejecting. Joshi has often projected his anti-theism and scientific materialism onto the Weird Fiction genre as a whole - I forget the specific contexts, but he's claimed that authors like Robert Aickman either fall outside or fall short of the "Weird" aesthetic simply because their fiction incorporated the supernatural. So far as rejecting Cosmicism (a lifeless, indifferent universe), there's very few authors who actually embrace it - canonical Weird Fiction authors like James and Machen were practicing Christians, whereas others like Blackwood held pantheistic and spiritualist beliefs.

If 'cosmicism' does mean the view that the universe is lifeless and indifferent, it might be a misnomer. The Greek word 'kosmos' means 'pattern', 'order' and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos

As that Wikipedia article states at the beginning, the cosmic is the opposite of chaos. Anaximander, Empedocles, etc., were, in that sense cosmicists. For them the universe was ordered (by Logos for some, or Nous for others). Democritus was the one who thought it was chaotic, but he wasn't, in the original sense, cosmic.

[Ucasuni]

Quote Originally Posted by qcrisp

If 'cosmicism' does mean the view that the universe is lifeless and indifferent, it might be a misnomer. The Greek word 'kosmos' means 'pattern', 'order' and so on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmos As that Wikipedia article states at the beginning, the cosmic is the opposite of chaos. Anaximander, Empedocles, etc., were, in that sense cosmicists. For them the universe was ordered (by Logos for some, or Nous for others). Democritus was the one who thought it was chaotic, but he wasn't, in the original sense, cosmic.

Although, to be fair, "lifeless and indifferent" are not synonymous with "chaotic". You can still exist in a causal universe that doesn't give a damn about you.

I'm assuming that you meant the above as mere etymological curiosity, not as a rebuttal. Fun with words.